D&D 5E Barb vs Fighter vs Monk..vs Paladin!

[Stalker0]

As people have mentioned, the monk's speed is one of its big assets, so lets see if we can make some accommodation for that.

A 6th level monk has 45 speed, so while quick it is not fast enough to move in, attack, and then move out far enough to avoid attack. However, when engaged in melee it could move out of range of the minotaurs 30 speed should it choose to.

So we play the scenario like this:

Round 1: Monk moves in and attacks (uses dodge). Gets hit by minotaurs
Round 2: Monk attacks, uses Step of the Wind to disengage from the minotaurs, and moves 45 feet back.
Round 3: Monk moves in and attacks (uses dodge). Gets hit by minotaurs
Round 4: Step of the Wind
Round 5: Dodge
Round 6: Step of the Wind

How would the monk look in this kind of skirmisher scenario?

DPR: 12.35
DTPR: 6.4375 (12.8475 on dodge rounds, 0 on step of the wind rounds)
RIS: 6.34 (modified...as once past 6 rounds ki runs out. At that point, Monk starts taking 27.45 DTPR)
Overall: 78.299

Conclusion: It does appear that the best defense....is never being there in the first place! A monk using skirmishing tactics (in an open area that would allow for such), has a much much higher survivability.

 

[Klockan]

I made some for sorcerer.

Flame Dancer: 6th level Human Fire Dragon Sorcerer
Str: 9 Dex: 16 Con: 16 Int: 9 Wis: 9 Cha: 18
AC: 16 (10 + 3 dragon +3 dex), 21 with shield
HP: 47 (6+3.5*5 from levels +18 from con + 6 from dragon)
Weapons: Fire Ball DC 15/15/15 8d6+4 or Fire Bolt +7 2d10 + 4 damage 15, critdamage 25

VS

3 Minotaur (CR 3)
AC: 14
HP: 76
Dex save = +0
Greataxe: +6, Dmg: 17 (30 on a crit)

With Special Abilities
(just fireball and shield)DPR: 86.4 (28.8*3)
DTPR: 17.25
RIS: 2.72
Overall Effectiveness: 235,4

(fireball, shield, quicken fireball for dodge, could also start with blur for free dodges)DPR: 86.4 (28.8*3)
DTPR: ~5
RIS: 3, then all or most enemies are dead, if not then there is probably just one enemy left so you can cast sleep on the ones that are left

 

[Juriel]

Ah, the caster trump card.

 

[Bryk]

No Fangs of the Fire Snake Monk??? that has the highest damage.

 

[kerbarian]

Yes, if a Sorcerer uses Fireball every round on attack, Shield every round on defense, and eats the opportunity attacks every round to get clear of the Minotaurs surrounding him so he can hit them with the fireball and not himself, he does quite well for those three rounds per day . Actually, a sorcerer could trade all his remaining spells to do it a 4th time.

Assuming he doesn't have any allies mixed in between the Minotaurs that would get hit by the fireball, of course. And that he's not in a building he cares about or plans to stay in for more than another minute.

More seriously, though, Fireball really changes the game for casters. I don't think there's anything else at its level that does half as much damage, and even going up to 5th level spells it's still the damage leader.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

A key part of the monks survivability in 5e rests, I think, in his mobility. There is no default charge abiliity in 5e. That means that a Monks superior speed will allow him to control this distance in most fights.

Now against Orcs, Rogues or other creatures with the ability to use bonus action movment the Monk can be in real trouble.

Also, this was an Open Hand monk, yes? Why didn't he use his trip ability? It grants him advantage on the follow up attack, and disadvantage on the AoO against him if he withdraws.

Come to think of it, as a wood elf Monk he's absurdly fast and proficient with the long bow. He could just pepper them with arrows while running away, spending the occasional Ki point to disengage if they get too close. They should never lay a paw on him.

Yeah, with all of the status effects it really seems like the monk is more a mobile hybrid controller than a straight up striker.

 

[obsid]

Looking back over the monk dmg calc you forgot to add his dex mod to each unarmed strike. That's a lot of extra dmg every flurry of blows that's missing.

 

[Stalker0]

Looking back over the monk dmg calc you forgot to add his dex mod to each unarmed strike. That's a lot of extra dmg every flurry of blows that's missing.

I took another look, and the original calculation is correct.

Quarterstaff Dmg: 4.5 (avg) + 4 (stat) = 8.5. On a crit, 4.5+4.5+4 = 13.

Unarmed Damage: 3.5 (avg) + 4(stat) = 7.5. On a crit, 3.5+3.5+4 = 11

Against the minotaurs, 65% chance to hit, 5% chance to crit.

Flurry: 2 regular attacks + 2 bonus attacks


8.5*.65+.05*13 = 6.175....x2 = 12.35
7.5*.65+.05*11 = 5.425....x2 = 10.85

12.35 + 10.85 = 23.2, the DPR noted in the OP.

What you may be missing, is that the extra attack from martial arts is a BONUS action. Because flurry of blows is also a bonus action, the two do not stack. So with flurry, you get 2 extra unarmed attacks, not 3. So effectively flurry only gets you 1 additional attack.

 

[Juriel]

No Fangs of the Fire Snake Monk??? that has the highest damage.

It's also not really sustainable, as you need to spend 1 Ki for every d10 damage, so 4 hits would cost 4 ki for 4d10. Might be better for alpha at a higher level, like lv12?

It just feels so wrong to ever give up the knockdown benefit of Open Hand - declare your Attack action, use bonus action on Flurry right away for 1 Ki, knock opponent down, get advantage on the rest of your attacks, which doubles their chance to crit and may give you defensive benefits.

 

[Seuleslintan]

thanks for your comparisons

i think most Champions/Berserks will use GWM, a Barb will take a Greataxe (because crit get bonus weapon Die) and a Champ will use Greatsword (because re-rolling a w6)?

the DPR king is then the Berserk?