Bard thoughts...Arcane/Leader and How it might work.

[Mostlyjoe]

Okay, I get the roles: Striker, Defender, Leader, and Controller. I get the power sources: Arcane, Divine, and Martial. And I'm starting to see how that plays into party dynamics.

But where does this leave the Bard. As of yet, we don't know if the Bard is going to make it into the core book. Sad I say. I'm more a Cleric kinda guy myself, but Bard was always my Arcane caster of choice. And I must say that the Bard would fill the Arcane/Leader roll nicely.

So far the Warlord has a few tactically combat abilities that mirror previous Bard party boosting powers. And from what I can tell the Cleric has mass heals/buffs that he can keep up to aid the group. It's a neat concept in all.

What bothers me is the very tactical/combat over orientation the new edition seems to be taking. As far as speed of play and combat ease sounds this is GREAT! So far they seem to be adding in a more dynamic interaction system for diplomacy and social challenges...and that too is great. But I dearly hope there will be more.

Back to the Bard, just imagine. A Bard uses his group Leader abilities to give the group social skill bonuses. Negotiations with NPC move smoother, illusions keep foes on their toes, the battle field becomes more dynamic as the Bard moves around supporting the Strikers with distractions and lays down a moral/buffing dynamic to the defenders. And the whole while time the Bard acts as the Faceman he's always been made to be.

What other roles/abilities can a Bard offer a group that doesn't steal the fire from the other 2 leader types?

Warlord - Martial/Leader using tactical edge and group maneuvers to control the battle field.

Cleric - Divine/Leader using healing and group buffs to bolster the party's stamina and speed.

Bard - Arcane/Leader using social interaction and deception to give everyone new options of play...maybe? I sure hope so.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

The one thing that needs to be remembered when it comes to the roles in 4e, is that they are combat roles. So although I could see a Bard getting the ability to perform social buffs, that will be because the Bard's out of combat schtick is social interaction, not from their leader role.

I think that the bard does need a healthy dose of illusion effects, along with moral increasing effects if they do indeed turn out to be Leaders. Illusions which give combat bonuses to the party members is definately a bard thing to do in my mind.

 

[Mostlyjoe]

True enough. The role are very combat oriented. By the same logic the Bard could be a Controller.

But my logic is

Leader = Buff/Enhancement powers

Controller = DeBuff/Movement powers

So, I'm thinking maybe the Bard could use a lot of Power Up type tricks. Defence, etc.

 

[Aage]

Actually, haven't they already mentioned the bard as a leader? in the design and developement article about leaders or something?

Edit:

When the bard enters the 4th Edition stage, she’ll have class features and powers that help her fill what we call the Leader role.

From this one: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070831a&authentic=true

 

[Reaper Steve]

Personally, I'd like to not see the Bard again. (But we know we will.)

Really, what does any of the pwers that ever been associated with it have to do with a minstrel? Bard should be a profession, like blacksmith or merchant. He's a guy that sings for his supper in the corner of a tavern. I don't see how that archetype qualifies to become a heroic class. Lumping arcane powers into the mix makes it even stranger.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Hopefully bards won't be an arcane class at all. If they're both being held back for the mark two core books, I hope bards and druids will be separate roles of a new source.

 

[Mad Mac]

Really, what does any of the pwers that ever been associated with it have to do with a minstrel. Bard should be a profession, like blacksmith or merchant. He's a guy that sings for his supper in the corner of a tavern. I don't see how that archetype qualifies to become a heroic class. Lumping arcane powers into the mix makes it even stranger.

That's the problem with the 3rd edition bard in a nutshell. There is a heroic archtype for the Bard, but it's not the minstrel. The 1st edition Bard is more in line with what the Bard is supposed to be, which is why it was so powerful. Even the 2nd edition Bard was much more of a magic using rogue than a singer. Bards should be more wise loremaster than wannabe rockstar, if you're going by mythology.

The 3rd edition version of the Bard decided to play up the lute playing support dude aspect of the class, which is the main reason it's considered so silly now.

In any event, if the want the 4th edition bard to be a leader (and apparently, that's what they're going for) they need to give the Bard a way to be waaaay more proactive in combat. Since the Warlord is going to be the lead from the front Martial Leader, and the Cleric has Divine Leader pegged, the Bard as Arcane Leader will probably be more offensive spell focused.

Since they stated that the goal for all leaders is to let them do support stuff without wasting all their actions healing and buffing, the Bard will probably be able to lead while throwing lots of spells at the enemy. They might keep the focus on enchantment and Illusion, but actually be good at it this time around.

Hopefully bards won't be an arcane class at all. If they're both being held back for the mark two core books, I hope bards and druids will be separate roles of a new source.

Tying the Bard back to the Druid is an interesting idea. What sort of spells would you give a divine bard, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Reaper Steve]

Since they stated that the goal for all leaders is to let them do support stuff without wasting all their actions healing and buffing, the Bard will probably be able to lead while throwing lots of spells at the enemy. They'll might keep the focus on enchantment and Illusion, but actually be good at it this time around.

I'm smelling what you're cookin', and I can get behind it, except the title 'Bard' doesn't seem to fit that role.

(Off to research historical/literary Bards before I take this too far...)

 

[Reaper Steve]

Back...
Yep, a Bard was a singer/poet.
I like the idea of an Arcane Leader, but not if its tied to Bard baggage.

Now, if thy want to make a Bard whose musical talents have magical effects, I could probably get behind it if they pulled it off well. But I can't see that as an Arcane Leader, either.

What can I see as an Arcane Leader? Maybe a Dwarf Runelord type.

 

[Mad Mac]

(Off to research historical/literary Bards before I take this too far...)

Just as a starting point, historical bards were a specialized sort of Druid. That's how far the class has drifted...

Gah, that was fast!

If I had it my way, I wouldn't make the Bard a leader either. I'm just throwing up the above idea because wizards has already said they were going to make him a leader. I like Controller Bards better.