Bards just don't convince me!

[MonsterMash]

In the group I GM for there is a Bard and she has proved pretty useful for them on several occasions, not just with the inspire courage, but also with bardic knowledge and spells.

As a class I find like Cleric it is tricker and more subtle to use well than a straightforward combat tank or divine spellcaster, but can actually be much more effective and powerful than say a straight fighter or sorceror.

 

[cmanos]

Now, this is the kind of stuff I mean. I have no idea what any of that is. Ironskin chant, sustaining song, it means nothing to me because nothing about the bard grabbed me strongly enough to read into it fully. What books are they from? We rarely play anything but PHB & Completes.

...but I still find it hard to believe that the difference between a bard and a cleric boils down to hps...

Chant of Fortitude - Complete Adventurer
Ironskin Chant - Complete Adventurer
Lyric Spell - Complete Adventurer

the difference between bards and clerics is much greater than hit points, yes. Bards aren't there just to compose little ditties about the parties heroics. Granted that is a huge benefit and is a very good thing to get your name out. If you do any kind of roleplaying and footwork (meanling gathering information, etc), bards are probably more useful than rogues. Bards get a huge lot of skills per level. While a bard is singing, he my not be contributing DIRECTLY to the combat, but buffing up the rest of your party and making them more effective....where do you see this as a bad thing? Most people just use Clerics as walking ambulances. How about talking your way out of a battle you know you can't win by physical force? Bard...Duh....

Instead of bitching about it, how about let him play what he wants to play and experiencing it before making any kind of judgement. Especially since you haven't even read the bard rules you have access to...

 

[diaglo]

How many of you have a Bard in your party anyway? :\

here ya go

Bards Suck

 

[Seeten]

Instead of singing in combat, how about perform(kata) to do a serious Crouching Tiger routine?

How cool can you look? As cool as you wanna look. It isnt about singing, its about inspiring people to be courageous. Looking like a devastating fighter is one damned fine way.

 

[Evilhalfling]

Well I dont know about the orginal poster, but I am settled on a bard.
- it helps that Im in a party of 5 mostly warriors and a mage.
Of course that leaves me as the healer. Any suggestions for a low level 3.0 Bard ?
I remember them as archer kings, but I dont know how many of the fighters and rangers are archers so I may need a fallback plan. I have his story and background but am iffy on feats etc.

Illveros - is an older elf who has spent most of his life peacefully, he is a historian and talespinner above all else. A promise made to the grandparents of a PC has brought him into the life as an active adventurer. He has recently discovered that he likes the life daily danger and is supplies of tales and legends makes the boring bits go faster. He was trained for battle early in life but has since done little (1st level feats and skills for combat, a 3rd level feat taken in peacetime and if nessary his 4th level taken as an adventurer (multclass etc.)

 

[two]

The archer bard in 3.0 is an easy and effective build.

3.0 bards gets the greater magic weapon spell, and because arrows & bow bonuses stack you can get +3 bow +3 arrow +2 inspire courage + 3 strength for 1d8+11 damage per arrow at a very very high "to hit" at mid-levels.

Level 1: PBshot, Rapid shot
Level 3: Precise Shot
Level 6: Whatever

Inspire Courage was also a free action to start in 3.0, so you can do it and stull fire off two arrows.

Tell everyone to stock up on potions, and you will do your healing after combat is over -- you got bad guy to shoot full of arrows, after all!

PS use the bone horn from Song & Silence

 

[Aenghus]

Bards are secondary healers and as they choose a limited selection of spells, can't afford to learn a variety of healing magic. Get the entire party to chip in and buy a wand of curing spells- a 1st level wand of Cure Light Wounds costs 750 gp and has 50 charges.

As for feats, an elven bard does well as an archer, as you say. Get Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot as your adventurer feats, to avoid shooting your companions. This leaves your 3rd level feat free for whatever you want, which depends on your character and the needs of the party as a whole.

Aenghus

Well I dont know about the orginal poster, but I am settled on a bard.
- it helps that Im in a party of 5 mostly warriors and a mage.
Of course that leaves me as the healer. Any suggestions for a low level 3.0 Bard ?
I remember them as archer kings, but I dont know how many of the fighters and rangers are archers so I may need a fallback plan. I have his story and background but am iffy on feats etc.

He was trained for battle early in life but has since done little (1st level feats and skills for combat, a 3rd level feat taken in peacetime and if nessary his 4th level taken as an adventurer (multclass etc.)

 

[Pielorinho]

I'm playing a bard now in an accelerated campaign (we level at the end of every session), and have made the following observations:
-Combat is unnecessary. I got 10 masterwork crossbow bolts at 3rd level. It's six sessions later, and I haven't fired one yet. I have never had a round of combat in which an attack was my best option. (This may be due to the fact that I'm a tiny character with a 6 strength, but still... )
-Everyone loves a buffer. Starting the fight with the song (usually a comic song about the ease with which we'll overcome our enemies) gets me on everyone's good side. Our party has four folks who specialize in attacks, so that's a lot of added damage. And this session I get the "Inspire Heroics" (or whatever) ability: the barbarians gonna luvvvv me.
-You need Spell Focus: Enchantments. I thought I could get away without this, but it's a must-have for bards, almost as necessary as Natural Spell is for druids. Bards get enchantment spells earlier than sorcerers, and their primary stat maeks them better at many enchantments (especially the Charm line) than wizards. Diplomacy as a class skill is very, very nice, as is bluff: far easier to make your Suggestion sound reasonable if you succeed on a bluff check.
-Bardic Music is very flexible. Once you reach a high enough level, you'll almost never use up all your bardic music. Which can lead to dramatic rare uses of abilities. I've only used Countersong once--but it was at a state dinner where a powerful evil wizard cast Mass Suggestion, threatening the city's top leaders with assassination by affected nobles. Being able to interrupt and thwart the wizard's speech with a Countersong was immensely satisfying.

I'm having a lot of fun playing a bard. It's very different from playing a druid or a fighter, but it's tremendous fun.

Daniel

 

[Storm Raven]

I hate them because it just seems absurd to sing in combat. I wish there was a variant bard who traded off inspire courage, etc. for bonus feats or a slightly better spell progression.

At one point the English outlawed Scottish bagpipes, labelling them as a weapon of war.

Roman historians wrote frequently about the intimidating din of Celtic horns played on the battlefield.

Some stories concerning Greek hoplites indicate that they sang songs of religious devotion in battle, and how that affected their foes: the Paen to Zeus for example (as told by Xenophon).

Music and song in battle was not unusual in the pre-Industrial world. In point of fact, there is some commentary concerning the Roman legions noting that they were virtually unique in that they did not sing in battle or go to war with music in the air.

 

[DanMcS]

Alter Self - 2nd level spell that gives you +6 natural armor for 10min per level? Yes, thank you.

As an aside, buh? I see lizardfolk get a +5 NA, what gets a +6? I had never thought about using this spell as a combat-enhancer, though it's fun for disguises and such.