D&D General Barrowmaze, Stonehell, Arden Vul, Rappan Athuk and other Megadungeons

[Micah Sweet]

I'm always thinking of games I'd like to run before I die and I hope to convince my group to, at some point, try a Megadungeon.

The 4 in the title that caught my eye as I was surfing the web (to us an outdated term)

What's been mostly on my mind is "What system do I want to run it in?" I know Barrow and Rappan each have 5E versions but some reviews I read say that the issues of 5E carry over. In such that the characters are Superheroes as opposed to Heroes and thus the dungeons, while still lethal, are less so. I'm curious how one handles leveling as well because 5E is fairly rapid unless the DM is just denying them levels until he feels its warranted and how does that even work in a Megadungeon? Any thoughts on 5E in an actual Megadungeon?

So. I figure best to keep it OSR. Castles and Crusades? Seems better suited for running D&D3/3.5 stuff. Shadowdark? Due it's XP/money system would require the DM to do a lot of converting. Which makes me sad because I love the system but don't want to spend time figuring out a money conversion rate while wondering if the team is getting the right amount of XP etc Tried that for a 2E adventure and ugh.

Okay so what do I own? OSRIC? It's just 1E cleaned up but does it really simplify anything? Basic Fantasy? Well, my options being what they are seems about right. Sound good?

Any thoughts on the dungeons? Barrow and Stone are apparently good for first attempt Megadungeons while Arden and Rappan require the DM to really put in effort. Thoughts?

ACKS, DCC, or possibly Shadowdark (haven't tried that one yet, but I like what I see).

 

[Micah Sweet]

I have played only a little of Stonehell, but read through it. It's one of those minimalist dungeons that needs the GM to have a really strong sense of what the dungeon is to them, and if they can then put their spin on it, it should be an awesome dungeon. To me, it's a very dark, horrific, reality twisting place with a lurking and insidious evil that is reaching out to infect the outer world. I managed to scare a PC in my current game away from ever going near the place just based on an interaction with an NPC who had been there.

I've been running Dwimmermount for the past couple of years, and it has great in-built flavour, lore and secrets, but the levels are individually a bit too small to really count or work as a megadungeon for me. Not enough space for factions to move and grow, or for rival parties to explore.

As far as rules go, any A&D, B/X, OD&D or BECMI-based ruleset that you like should do the job.

I have a copy of World's Largest Dungeon I'd love to try.

 

[Luz]

Castle Xyntillan should get a mention, I’d recommend it over any of the four listed in the original post. Simple, easy-to-run megadungeon, very well written.

 

[Schmoe]

I'm not sure if it counts as a Megadungeon, but I give high marks to the Tomb of Abysthor for 3.5e. It has several factions, and an interesting local region. The temple of Orcus within served as the centerpiece of my current campaign, including one near-TPK and multiple aborted assaults. They spent levels 3-8 in the dungeon before their adventures took them elsewhere. Despite that, they only really explored about 50% of the dungeon. They'll soon be returning at around 12th level as they seek out some of the secrets on the lower levels.

With only about 8-10 levels/sub-levels, and between 10-30 locations per level, I'm not sure if it's big enough for you, but it could be worth checking out. It also has the advantage of being published in 3.5e, so you could use those rules if you're familiar with them.

Another one that I've wanted to use is Caverns of Thracia. It was even published long ago by Judge's Guild, so should be easy to run using either BECMI or 1e.

 

[Art Waring]

I once tried to start a Rappan Athuk campaign, but the layout of the maps was a bit confusing (to me anyway). Honestly, I tried wrapping my head around it and after a long time trying to figure it out, I realized that I was probably better off making my own megadungeon.

The problem is that (at least in the 3.5 version) there is no core map that shows the entire thing, it is cut up into smaller pieces. That works for running individual sections of the dungeon, but it does not help GM's get the "big picture" of where everything fits on a complete map. Some people might not have this problem, but in my experience, having a more thorough layout of the maps helps me to conceptualize it in its entirety.

Not included on your list, but Gradient Descent from Mothership is a great megadungeon to look into. It has numerous maps, from maps that cover individual sections of the station, to maps that show the entire thing and all of its connecting points. I was able to grok it on the first read. I can't say the same for Rappan Athuk.

 

[Schmoe]

I once tried to start a Rappan Athuk campaign, but the layout of the maps was a bit confusing (to me anyway). Honestly, I tried wrapping my head around it and after a long time trying to figure it out, I realized that I was probably better off making my own megadungeon.

The problem is that (at least in the 3.5 version) there is no core map that shows the entire thing, it is cut up into smaller pieces. That works for running individual sections of the dungeon, but it does not help GM's get the "big picture" of where everything fits on a complete map. Some people might not have this problem, but in my experience, having a more thorough layout of the maps helps me to conceptualize it in its entirety.

Not included on your list, but Gradient Descent from Mothership is a great megadungeon to look into. It has numerous maps, from maps that cover individual sections of the station, to maps that show the entire thing and all of its connecting points. I was able to grok it on the first read. I can't say the same for Rappan Athuk.

Agreed, the Rappan Athuk maps are almost uniformly terrible. I've checked out multiple editions (at least 3e, 5e) and the quality is consistently bad across them, so I think the issue is core to the product, not the edition.

 

[Art Waring]

Agreed, the Rappan Athuk maps are almost uniformly terrible. I've checked out multiple editions (at least 3e, 5e) and the quality is consistently bad across them, so I think the issue is core to the product, not the edition.

Thank you for letting me know, I never got to check out the 5e version.

 

[Cruentus]

Any thoughts on the dungeons? Barrow and Stone are apparently good for first attempt Megadungeons while Arden and Rappan require the DM to really put in effort. Thoughts?

I have read most of the four of these megadungeons, but due to their size, I had the same problem of wrapping my head around the whole thing, similar to @Art Waring and so have never run them.

I do have a couple set up to be run in one of my planned campaigns, so I "might".

However, I have been watching/listening to 3d6 Down the Line, and they're doing a live play series of sessions of Arden Vul using Old School Essentials (OSE). They are currently on their 62nd episode (playing weekly), and I have found it very helpful to see how the Referee handles the maps, the different groups in the dungeons, and keeps it all managed. He sometimes shares his screen with viewers (on Youtube), and you can see his markups on his digital copy, bookmarks, etc. They also started doing post session "detoxes" where they discuss elements of the game, how the rules work and don't, and discuss things like party comp, meta knowledge, dungeon delving, old school play, etc.

I enjoy the two hour sessions of them covering 4 rooms, never rolling dice, and watching/listening as party members succumb to the dungeon, as well as their discussions about mapping, etc (ymmv). So, if you are interested in Arden Vul, that might be a place to see one take on it.

I do think a big difference is that they are playing Arden Vul and its environs as the entire campaign. So there is no "rest of the world". Its exploring Arden Vul, and using the nearby city as a kicking off point, but it is clearly intended that almost all of the action will be in AV. And its certainly big enough, with enough moving parts, to keep things interesting (imo).

My biggest challenge is using these pre-made dungeons, and having to change them enough to match up to the rest of the area they sit (changing NPC's, monsters, motivations of various parties, linking hooks in and out of the dungeon, etc.). My newest campaign that I'm spinning up is Dolmenwood using those rules (though I use OSE almost exclusively now), and I'll have to change up some of Necrotic Gnome's basic adventures to fit into Dolmenwood more seamlessly (like Hole in the Oak) - same problem and challenge for me, smaller scope.

 

[Reynard]

I realize this thread is D&D General, but I have been running PF2E Abomination Vault and I just realized today that there is no random.encounter mechanism. There is no reason for the PCs to not just rest in the dungeon. I don't like it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I realize this thread is D&D General, but I have been running PF2E Abomination Vault and I just realized today that there is no random.encounter mechanism. There is no reason for the PCs to not just rest in the dungeon. I don't like it.

Not even something like spellcasters suffering horrible nightmares, so they can't get restful sleep and recharge?