Batman as a D&D character

[Raven Crowking]

Gnome Illusionist. Or is that Beguiler now?

See, "The Batman" really doesn't exist. He's an urban myth. Sometimes he's a phantasm, sometimes he's an image. Sometimes he's a gnome illusionist with a Hat of Disguise and a crowbar, who pounds some real damage onto the creatures his illusions have rendered unconscious.

 

[orcmonk220]

Vigilante prestige class anyone? I know you get the spells, but I'm sure you could tweek it....

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

For the sake of simplicity, I'd simply look at combining the Non-spellcasting Ranger from Complete Warrior with the Urban Ranger from Unearthed Arcana.

Batman's really just a guy in a costume with a ton of money behind him. He's not that strong or dexterous. I'd say 16s in those scores are even appropriate. Definitely an 18 in intelligence, but I'd say he has ~14 wisdom and constitution and 10-12 charisma.

Batman is a superhero, but he's not a superhuman. His ability scores should all be fairly reasonable to only slightly higher than your average hero.

I don't think you can give him Bruce Wayne money unless he's just an NPC who shows up, does something cool, then disappears again. Billions and billions will quickly break any semblance of balance for a character - with enough money even a level 1 character could be a difficult encounter.

The rest is really just flavor. He wears a batsuit and likes to hide in the shadows. He's Chaotic Good. If you want to be really cheeky, give him an animal companion that's a robin.

But let's not confuse Batman with Hercules, or Superman, or someone who should have crazy ability scores. Batman's just a guy who worked real hard at what he does.

 

[Wolfwood2]

But let's not confuse Batman with Hercules, or Superman, or someone who should have crazy ability scores. Batman's just a guy who worked real hard at what he does.

In D&D terms, I would think that translates as being very high level.

So no Batman doesn't have a 20 strength, but he is 20th level and has above-average wealth for a 20th level character.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

In D&D terms, I would think that translates as being very high level.

So no Batman doesn't have a 20 strength, but he is 20th level and has above-average wealth for a 20th level character.

I wouldn't put Batman even close to 20th level. I'm not sure I'd even put him at 10th level. I'm thinking 7th level.

In a lot of ways, Batman is like your typical adventuring PC - he loses a lot, has to skulk away and come up with a new plan and try and adjust circumstances to gain victory over an opponent who is significantly more powerful than he is.

The vast majority of Batman's major villains are all seriously flawed characters, and I'd say most of them are more powerful than he is. The Joker is almost certainly smarter than Batman, he's just completely and unmanageably insane.

You have to separate CL from ECL. Batman's probably a CL 7, but if you give him his wealth, his ECL is much higher than that. The Joker's probably a higher CL, but with his insanity an ECL lower than that.

Batman has always been about exploiting the weaknesses in others, not about beating them at their own game. He's not super-powerful, he's tactical and patient. He's the ultimate metagaming PC.

 

[Doctor DM]

I just realized that we all have been going about this the wrong way! We've all been trying to faithfully recreate Batman for D&D, but if he is going to be a CR appropriate encounter then he must be at least somewhat limited by the PCs themselves - perhaps a couple levels over their current highest level, thus making him a difficult but not insurmountable challenge for them.

So, what level are your PCs?

They're 6 at the moment, but I don't really want them to overcome Batman right now. Maybe in a few levels. But right now I really just want him so if they do decide to go raiding, he can show up, beat them down, they can run away, and then probably they won't steal stuff anymore. I'm thinking of making him somewhere around 15, high level, but maybe they'll have a chance of taking him later on in the campaign.

 

[Mistwell]

Vigilante prestige class anyone? I know you get the spells, but I'm sure you could tweek it....

Yeah I have been advocating the same. It's the right fit. An Urban Ranger / Monk or Urban Ranger / Rogue going into Vigilante works great.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

This is what I get if I combine Urban Ranger with Non-Spellcasting Ranger.

Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills
The ranger’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str)
Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), 
Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), 
Knowledge (geography/local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), 
Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), 
Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points: 6 + Int modifier.

Lvl	BAB		Fort	Ref	Will	Special

1st	+1		+2	+2	+0	1st FE Organization, 
						Urban Tracking, 
						wild empathy (at 1/2 level)
2nd	+2		+3	+3	+0	Combat style
3rd	+3		+3	+3	+1	Endurance
4th	+4		+4	+4	+1	Animal companion 
						(no larger than Medium)
5th	+5		+4	+4	+1	2nd FE Organization
6th	+6/+1		+5	+5	+2	Improved combat style, 
						+10' movement
						(when not in Heavy Armor)
7th	+7/+2		+5	+5	+2	
8th	+8/+3		+6	+6	+2	May make Urban Tracking check 
						every 30 minutes without a -5 
						penalty
9th	+9/+4		+6	+6	+3	Evasion
10th	+10/+5		+7	+7	+3	3rd FE Organization
11th	+11/+6/+1	+7	+7	+3	Combat style mastery, 
						As a Standard Action gain a +4 
						bonus to Con, Dex, or Wis for 
						1 minute per Class Level. 
						Useable 1/day.
12th	+12/+7/+2	+8	+8	+4	
13th	+13/+8/+3	+8	+8	+4	Neutralize Poison or 
						Remove Disease 1/day
14th	+14/+9/+4	+9	+9	+4	
15th	+15/+10/+5	+9	+9	+5	4th FE Organization
16th	+16/+11/+6/+1	+10	+10	+5	Freedom of Movement 
						(self only) 1/day
17th	+17/+12/+7/+2	+10	+10	+5	Hide in plain sight 
						(useable in any terrain, 
						including urban)
18th	+18/+13/+8/+3	+11	+11	+6	
19th	+19/+14/+9/+4	+11	+11	+6	
20th	+20/+15/+10/+5	+12	+12	+6	5th FE Organization

 

[Asha'man]

Some of you people can't be serious. A portrayal of batman, *the* Batman, of CR/Level less than 15 is simply absurd, considering what he's done. Among other things it's established, in series such as "Hush" and "The Dark Knight Returns", that he can defeat Superman. Even though this requires preparation, rather extreme amounts of such in DKR, and may or may not depend on Superman holding back, Superman is still high Epic, (Around CR 30+, I'd guess) and there's no way for Bats to defeat him if he isn't at least CR 17-20 himself, at a minimum.

On the other hand, this isn't relevant to the Batman *archetype*. All he needs to be is highly competent, but not completely superhuman compared to those he fights. A "batman-style" vigilante I would simply stat as a Rogue 10 (Assuming average joe NPC is level 2-3 like in Eberron. Otherwise add levels as needed, possibly Fighter or Urban Ranger, to maintain a similar edge.) with the Superior Unarmed Strike feat from Tome of Battle. Give him some skill tricks and build him focused on stealth, defense and hit-and-run tactics.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

Some of you people can't be serious. A portrayal of batman, *the* Batman, of CR/Level less than 15 is simply absurd, considering what he's done. Among other things it's established, in series such as "Hush" and "The Dark Knight Returns", that he can defeat Superman. Even though this requires preparation, rather extreme amounts of such in DKR, and may or may not depend on Superman holding back, Superman is still high Epic, (Around CR 30+, I'd guess) and there's no way for Bats to defeat him if he isn't at least CR 17-20 himself, at a minimum.

This extensive preparation Batman needs to beat anyone is exactly my point about his relatively low class level. Just because he can get the better of these opponents doesn't make him their equal. If Superman surprised Batman in a dark alley, it would be over in a round. Batman wins mostly through gadgets and tools, which have nothing at all to do with his personal level - just his ridiculous wealth and the obsessive desire he has for figuring out how to defeat his allies. You just let the Batman NPC have any item you can conceivably come up with and you're done.

Fanboyism aside, the fact of the matter is Batman is not that powerful, in and of himself. Stripped of devices and forced to fight only with his hands he's not going to get that far against anybody of a heroic standard (level 10+).

With enough time to prepare and virtually unlimited wealth, you can do just about anything in D&D, just as in real life.

Just look what happened when Bane got his hands on him.