BattleStar Galactica S2/E7 08.26.05

[Rykion]

I find that to be perfectly reasonable. Halo - unlike most other people - can no longer help but think of Sharon as a person, and people - even members of genocidal militaries, or those guilty of attempted murder - are not executed without a trial... Especially in a place as absurdly touchy-feely (given the desperate situation) as the remnants of the colonial fleet have been.

In fact, enemy spies found wearing a friendly country's uniform during times of war are often executed immediately after interrogation. The fact that the Cylons in the fleet are actively sabotaging equipment and feeding information to the other Cylons just reinforces the fact the Colonials must try to quickly eliminate them.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

The idea in original BSG was that they wanted to wipe out Earth to kill all remaining humans, but I think these Cylons are just looking for humans who share their beliefs, and trying in some long-term fashion to put an end to their polytheistic beliefs and convert them.

Up until this episode, I pretty much agreed with that. Six specifically said to Baltar that she is to stay with him to the END of the Human race. Of course, this still hinges on whether or not Baltar's just imagining things, but if he isn't, I don't think the Cylons want anything but to kill the remaining Humans they believe are on Earth.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I think it is telling that the 12 colonies used to fly flags that were the constellations as they appeared on Earth and that they originally carried the Earth names for the constellations. It gives credence to the theory that Kobol was colonized by Earth.

It happened before and it will happen again.

Earth might be the origional birthplace of man, from which they first went out, then returned later. It might have been colonized many times and destroyed just as many times, the number and history lost to the eons. Maybe humans arn't really humans themselves. Humans create cylons. Cylons are led to Earth by mankind. Cylons kill man and take their place as the new humans. The new "humans" colonize the 12 colonies. "Humans" create cylons. And on and on. Not likely, but I like it.

 

[wingsandsword]

Up until this episode, I pretty much agreed with that. Six specifically said to Baltar that she is to stay with him to the END of the Human race. Of course, this still hinges on whether or not Baltar's just imagining things, but if he isn't, I don't think the Cylons want anything but to kill the remaining Humans they believe are on Earth.

She also said that he was crazy and she didn't exist, and later that she was an Angel. Six is manipulating Baltar something serious, and a comment like being with him until the end of the human race is hard for me to take literally realizing that. It's like saying you'd be with him for the rest of his life, or until the end of the world. Everything Six says needs to be considered a possible lie, she's telling Baltar what he wants to hear.

I still think she's some kind of chip in his head (like a link to the "Number 6" collective mind), if normal Colonial technology can't tell the difference between a humanoid-cylon who can download their memories to their others when they die and a normal human, some kind of cylon implant could easily be undetectable to Colonial technology.

 

[Belen]

Cylons use organic technology. They could easily have slipped an organic chip or added additional memory RNA into his brain.

However, we may be going too far here as well. Nothing says that Baltar is sane. The man is a genius. His subconscious could easily have split into an alternate personality. He is smart enough to guess a lot of the Cylon plans.

Then again, the Cylons may also have some sort of psionic powers. I am still disturbed by the episode where the Cylon "hacked" a closed network. Those computers were wired together. They were not set up on a wireless network. The Cylons should not have been able to hack into a network to which they do not belong. They somehow "beamed" into a closed network.

Maybe they can "beam" into wetware too.

 

[mmu1]

In fact, enemy spies found wearing a friendly country's uniform during times of war are often executed immediately after interrogation. The fact that the Cylons in the fleet are actively sabotaging equipment and feeding information to the other Cylons just reinforces the fact the Colonials must try to quickly eliminate them.

1. I think we've had enough real-world examples lately of the fact that the whole "illegal combatant" issue actually tends to be a little more complex than the way shooting spies is generally portrayed in old war movies or James Bond films.

2. More importantly, this has nothing to do with the reasons the BSG characters give for treating Cylons as they do - it's all been about "get this thing off of my ship", and "I can't believe you were frackin' a toaster".

Like I said, I don't hold executing Cylons against them - only pretending that they're destroying machines rather than killing sentient beings, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary... I'm actually starting to like Zarek better now because of that - he at least is consistent, moron of an anarchist (with a martyr complex) though he might be.

And I absolutely despise Roslyn for flipping between "Oh, no! Think of the democracy! If we declare martial law, the Cylons have already won!" and "This thing is clearly too dangerous to be allowed to exist! Guards, off with his head!" Queen frackin' Roslyn...

 

[Rykion]

I do agree that killing Cylons because they are just "toasters" is short sighted. They logically should be disposed of because they can continue to spy and give away the fleet's location even while captured. They should know that the Cylons they are terminating may be sentient.

I won't get into James Bond or modern "illegal combatants," but militaries go out of their way to insure no spy chooses to wear their uniform lightly, especially in times of war. This is usually done by executing them soon after capture and letting their enemy know it was done. It is not just something in war movies.

 

[Belen]

And I absolutely despise Roslyn for flipping between "Oh, no! Think of the democracy! If we declare martial law, the Cylons have already won!" and "This thing is clearly too dangerous to be allowed to exist! Guards, off with his head!" Queen frackin' Roslyn...

People often dehumanize their enemies. It helps them cope with what they have to do in wartime. Seeing Cylons as toasters helps.

Considering that the Cylons brutally murdered billions of people. I feel no sense of loss if they are treated as less than human.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think that Sharon does remember everything, including what Adama said to her in the morgue. She made the comment "you asked me why?"

I think it is telling that the 12 colonies used to fly flags that were the constellations as they appeared on Earth and that they originally carried the Earth names for the constellations. It gives credence to the theory that Kobol was colonized by Earth.

Or we actually see/hear only a translated version of what the Colonials really say - since it seems unlikely that they speak a completely unaltered english if they are descendants from Earth.

But are they still going according to programming or are they actual thinking machines? Is it possible thier programming is so advanced that they are indistinguishable from people unless you give them some kind of Voight-Kampff test?

When does a copy become a original? If it is impossible to detect the difference between two things, aren´t they the same? Clearly, Cylons are different (glowing spine, conciousness download, high strength and speed) on a superficial level. But that aside, do we know their mind is so different from ours? Maybe cylons could install a boomer-sleeper program not only in Cylons, but also in humans. Where do we have to lock to find the differences in mental capacities?
Personally, I believe Cylons are no longer thinking machines - maybe even the Centurions weren´t - they are sentient, and as long as humanity isn´t willing to see that, the Cylons have a valid (even if not morally right) reason to hate and destroy them.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

1. I think we've had enough real-world examples lately of the fact that the whole "illegal combatant" issue actually tends to be a little more complex than the way shooting spies is generally portrayed in old war movies or James Bond films.

2. More importantly, this has nothing to do with the reasons the BSG characters give for treating Cylons as they do - it's all been about "get this thing off of my ship", and "I can't believe you were frackin' a toaster".

Like I said, I don't hold executing Cylons against them - only pretending that they're destroying machines rather than killing sentient beings, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary... I'm actually starting to like Zarek better now because of that - he at least is consistent, moron of an anarchist (with a martyr complex) though he might be.

And I absolutely despise Roslyn for flipping between "Oh, no! Think of the democracy! If we declare martial law, the Cylons have already won!" and "This thing is clearly too dangerous to be allowed to exist! Guards, off with his head!" Queen frackin' Roslyn...

The main thing I've had a problem with was Roslyn's insistance that everything should go on like their culture and species wasn't on the brink of extinction every second of every day for the most part, then flipping over to the opposite end like you said. For example she should have tight control over the remaining media and anything that could represent a possible threat to the unity and survival of the fleet. She should have declared martial law IMO. Because its necessary. Anyone who isn't working towards the goal of safeguarding the fleet and by extension humanity is a threat to that very survival. So for example I'd have spaced Zarek as well due to his actions, or imprisoned him again at the very least. Endangering the fleet would be a capital crime so would be being a toaster. I doubt most people would have a problem with that if they thought such actions would keep them safe from a concrete threat of death coming at any second.

Martial Law isn't cylon victory, cylon victory is the destruction of the Galactica and the fleet, leaving only the small groups of survivors on the nuked planets to slowly die of attrition and rad poisoning and thus ending humanity.

What proves that the Cylons are sentient beings, in an individual sense. Aren't they more of a group entity in terms of the human models? Did "Sharon" die when shot by the deck crew woman? No, one of her many vessels stopped functioning, but that consciousness lives on in the vast number of other identical synthetic bodies. At least that is the way I see it.