D&D 3E/3.5 Beating 3.5 Psionics with the nerf bat

[Spatzimaus]

Problem 1: Psions going nova

Unbalanced. Yes, a Psion can cast all of his powers fully augmented if you only have one or two encounters per day. But your suggestion just cripples them, since by expending Psionic Focus you're basically limiting them to one or two high-powered powers per encounter. Even a Wizard can do more than that.

Also, the phrasing is loaded with problems: "If a power is augmented to more than half the manifester's level". Should it be if it's augmented BY more than half? Because otherwise, if I'm CL10 and I decide to augment a fourth-level power (7pp) by one point, I'd be crippled. But if it's "BY", then this'd only rarely come up; even at CL20, I could still pump that 4th-level power by +10 (17pp total) without penalty.

Problem 2: 1 power = An energy type for every occasion

Completely disagree with this one, especially in conjunction with your first suggestion. Let's take an example, Energy Bolt (3rd-level power). It deals 5d6 damage in a 120' line, +1d6 per pp, with the usual +1DC per 2 pp. Selecting Fire or Cold deals +1 damage per die, while Lightning is +2 DC. Compare to Lightning Bolt, a 3rd-level spell, which deals 1d6 per level (max 10d6). To match the damage at level 10, a psion using Energy Bolt would need to spend 3pp if he had selected Fire or Cold types, which'd also give him +1 DC. (5pp if he picked Lightning, but that'd also put him at +4 DC, so the break-even point is closer to 3pp). So, that 3rd-level power effectively costs more than a 4th-level power if you want to match the Wizard.

My point is, the Energy spells are very nice powers, but to match what the Wizard is doing, you HAVE to augment the powers. This is a big drawback, and to counteract it, the Psion gets two benefits: first, that he can continue to augment the power beyond what the arcane spells cap at, and second, the ability to pick the energy type. You'd already made clear you disliked heavily augmenting, and so if you house-rule that part away, the only advantage left is the ability to pick damage types.

Now, if you still want to limit the ability to swap damage types on the fly, there are other ways to do it, like what Psion suggested. Or instead, how about this?
> At the start of each turn Psion selects a damage type, which applies to all Energy powers manifested during that round. As a Free Action you can change the chosen Energy type at the start of a round; however, you only get the "extra" effects of a damage type (+1 damage per die, +2 DC, etc.) if you kept the same damage type as the previous round (note: the change to a Fort save for the Cold type is immediate). Effectively, there's a 1-round "dead period" when changing damage types, where the powers won't be as effective.

Problem 3: No psion ever learns Detect Psionics

This one I can agree with. In fact, the whole 3.5E removal of Talents (cantrips) has a LOT of annoying consequences. And yes, it's created a whole slew of near-worthless level 1 powers that simply aren't much better than their cantrip-level equivalents.

The idea someone had previously suggested, which I liked better, was to just make these ex-cantrips BETTER. For instance, have Detect Psionics also duplicate the functionality of Read Magic. That sort of thing.

Problem 4: I manifest Energy wall [sonic] and wait for the wall to fall down

Weak. Very, very weak. The ability to dismiss, in most cases, just isn't worth the increased cost, and forcing this sort of rule change on all players doesn't make it any better.

So how about make it a more general metapsionic Feat, instead?

Dismissable Power (Metapsionic)
You can dismiss an active power.
Benefit:
To use this Feat, you must expend your Psionic Focus.
Any power with a fixed duration may gain the (D) modifier, making it dismissable at will.
Using this Feat increases the cost of the power by 2 power points.

Or, better yet, make it a more general Feat:
Duration Control (Psionic)
You may dismiss any active power you have manifested before its duration has expired. If the spell was not normally dismissable, this costs an additional 2 power points, and if the spell had more than half of its duration remaining, this cost increases to 4pp.

(I like the second more than the first, because it doesn't require Psionic Focus. The increased cost was to make up for that.)

 

[avr]

Too fast and dirty and not really balanced...

The real fix is to just tell the player not to nova.

...

Unfortunately, that's not always a solution, because some players just don't get it. The limiting of the PP pool per encounter is a much simpler and closer-to-balanced solution, at least in my experience

I agree - but limiting PP/encounter IME produces a problem also. The character runs out of PP and the player gets bored. I'm looking for a way to force planning, if you will. I'm not stuck on this solution, but I'd like some way of stopping the player burning thru his PP as quickly as possible. I like the basic idea of augmenting BTW, just not the consequence that spending PP as quickly as possible looks like (or is) the best tactic to some players.

My take here is that every psion can only use one energy at a time with powers which allow you to choose energy types. It's their "focus" energy. To shift focus energy, a psion must expend their psionic focus. As this interferes with many abilities and feats that require focus, I consider it a fair, if minor, cost. It also has the added effect of making the few powers that have a specific energy type more attractive... if for some reason you need both energy types on hand at the same time.

This I like. Depending on how I solve problem 1, I may well steal this.

The psionics system has a load of stuff I like, but there are some problems with its use in my campaigns. I think adding the Bo9S in my next campaign for PC use will help balance things, but it got to the point in a previous campaign that the psions player offered to retire his character for balance reasons.

Wizards generally self-nerf by preparing a bunch of useful/utility spells & we haven't really used Sorcerers. Psions going nova is a problem for my group & I'd welcome others solutions if they have found this a problem also.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

Dont allow augmentations. I dont think the original 3e psionics handbook had them. Havent read that in awhile. Try that for your game.

Personally I dont find a problem with 3.5 psionics of any of WOTC's add ons.

 

[Yair]

Problem 1: Psions going nova

I've yet to see a good solution to this problem, and I do find it a problem in my games. I don't like your suggestion, though, as it disallows not just going nova but rather manifesting high level (well, high PP) powers.

The "one quarter PP per encounter" rule is interesting. I'm afraid it will leave the PC with too little power points for an encounter, though, especially in long or particularly difficult encounters. Still, I think it's the best option I've heard yet.

Another option might be to limit the character's power point expenditure flux. Perhaps only allow the psion to expan up to half his manifester level x rounds in total power points spent in the combat (with the exception of unlimited amount in the first round). This will mean forcing a "slow nova", lessening the psion's power to repeatedly launch high-level powers. It's a lot of accounting, though.

Problem 2: 1 power = An energy type for every occasion

I agree with this change. Psions lovers can whine all they like - having an energy specific suit of powers is just cooler, and the powers are plenty powerful without this flexibility.

I wouldn't grant the +1 manifester level, though. They don't need to be compensated, IMO.

Problem 3: No psion ever learns Detect Psionics

Very interesting. I think that's appropriate.

Problem 4: I manifest Energy wall [sonic] and wait for the wall to fall down[

Haven't run into this problem. Yet.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Try granting psionic characters 1/4 of their PP per encounter, instead of their regular allotment of PP per day.

So in order to gain their PP back, they would maybe have to refresh somehow - rest for 5 minutes, or take a full round action to concentrate (provoking an AoO) or something like that.

 

[Thanee]

Just have psions prepare all their powers including augmentation in advance during their morning refreshment routine, including the option to leave some PP open and meditate 15 minutes to prepare a power to manifest with those. Leave the true flexibility to those that pay for it.

Wilders, IMHO anyways, should be allowed to manifest powerful effects, since they are otherwise heavily limited.

Bye
Thanee

 

[green slime]

I actually like augmentations, and would prefer if spells worked in a similar way. That is, a sorcerer would know "fly". This sorcerer would then be able to select exactly what level to cast "fly" at by selecting from a variety of properties: speed, manueverability, duration (rounds, minutes, hours), which targets (personal, touched, mass), casting time (swift, immediate, standard, minutes...) and so on.

*sigh*

I'll just crawl back into my dream chamber...

 

[robberbaron]

If you don't want psions augmenting their manifestations, don't allow it.

If you don't want psions at all, don't allow them.

 

[Bacris]

I agree - but limiting PP/encounter IME produces a problem also. The character runs out of PP and the player gets bored. I'm looking for a way to force planning, if you will. I'm not stuck on this solution, but I'd like some way of stopping the player burning thru his PP as quickly as possible. I like the basic idea of augmenting BTW, just not the consequence that spending PP as quickly as possible looks like (or is) the best tactic to some players.

But, in theory, it shouldn't result in the character running out of PP - because the PLAYER of the character should understand that he needs to ration those power points. The character shouldn't be augmenting every power to his manifester level cap - that's really squandering power points and unless the character's personality is frivolous with such resources, I really do see that as horribly metagaming.

Honestly, this sounds more like a PLAYER problem than a SYSTEM problem... The fraction of the pool tweak grants the player the ability to augment as necessary, but he can't nova. It encourages the player to figure out just how many power points to use for each power. Every manifestation shouldn't be max-augmented - this encourages learning that.

I've also seen other DMs simply say "since we only have one encounter per day, you only get half your power points."

 

[Kisanji Arael]

Dont allow augmentations. I dont think the original 3e psionics handbook had them. Havent read that in awhile. Try that for your game.

Personally I dont find a problem with 3.5 psionics of any of WOTC's add ons.

Original 3e handbook? Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

I still want to set everything back to sciences and disciplines, but that's just me.