Beholder's Eye Rays & AoO

[Shin Okada]

Yes, just like ray spells require a roll but do not use the attack action. The fact that it is in the "attack" listing is a somewhat-abusive abbreviation of what the creature will do offensively on its round.

But "attack" is not just a name of an action.

There is "attack" standard action.
There is "full-attack" full-round action.

But each attacks which a character do when taking "full-attack" actions are still "attack".

A character makes a single "attack" when he uses cleave or AoO. Though neither cleave nor AoO are actions at all.

I have been thinking that "touch attack" part of a touch spell and "ranged touch attack" part of a ranged touch spell are both attacks. Thus, all the rules regarding attacks are applied (say. flanking, cover, etc.). Am I wrong about this?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I have been thinking that "touch attack" part of a touch spell and "ranged touch attack" part of a ranged touch spell are both attacks. Thus, all the rules regarding attacks are applied (say. flanking, cover, etc.). Am I wrong about this?

No, that's right. However, a ranged attack does not provoke an AoO.

The standard action, Attack (ranged) provokes an AoO. But when you use the Use Supernatural Ability standard action to fire an eye ray, which is a ranged attack, you're not using the Attack (ranged) standard action.

As Caliban notes above, it's also stated in the text that attacking with a ranged weapon provokes an AoO. This is why someone taking the full round action Full Attack (AoO: No) to shoot their bow provokes an AoO; not because the Full Attack action provokes, but because they are attacking with a ranged weapon. Even though they're not using the Attack (ranged) standard action.

With the beholder, however: he doesn't provoke an AoO for using the Attack (ranged) standard action, because he's using the Use Supernatural Ability standard action instead.

If you deem that in firing an eye ray, he's attacking with a ranged weapon, he provokes. If you deem that he's making a ranged attack, but with something that isn't a ranged weapon, he doesn't provoke.

It's all in how you rule the eye rays.

-Hyp.

 

[andargor]

I agree with Hyp (he beat me to the post), but to muddle the waters further, there's this entry in the FAQ:

The shadowdancer’s hide in plain sight ability is a supernatural ability, so by definition it takes a standard action to hide in plain sight, right? The monk’s speed becomes a supernatural ability at 9th level. Does a monk have to spend a standard action to move greater than 50 feet in one action?

Though supernatural abilities usually require a standard action to use, a few of them do not. Hide in plain sight, for example, works just like any other use of the Hide skill, so you use it as a move action or as part of a move action.
A monk’s supernatural speed works anytime the monk moves. In general, whenever a supernatural ability changes the way one of the user’s actions works, it works just like the action it modifies.

Now this is thin, but since the rays are indicated in the Attack and Full Attack entries, it means that the Attack (ranged) action is used. The above quote indicates that the "supernatural ability changes the way" the action works, so it "works just like" an Attack (ranged) action.

You are justified to rule either way, depending if you decide that it is a Use Supernatural Ability action, or an Attack (ranged) action.

Andargor

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Well, except that without the eye ray, a beholder doesn't have any ranged attacks. So the supernatural ability doesn't change the way its attacks work, because the supernatural ability itself constitutes the attack.

 

[Shin Okada]

So, by RAW,

#1: "Attack (ranged)" action provokes AoO because the "Actions in Combat" table says so.

#2: "attacking with a ranged weapon" provokes AoO because the "Provoking an Attack of Opportunity" entry in PHB P.137 says so.

#3: "Full-attack" action itself does not provoke AoO because "Actions in Combat" table says so. But when making a full-attack with a ranged weapon, each attack still provokes AoO because of rule 2.

Those are the facts.

----
Now, in case of Beholder, we should check 2 questions.

#Question 1: Action types.

What kind of action are the beholder using to shoot rays?

Opinion 1: Either "Attack" or "Full-Attack" actions.
Because rays are written in the "attack" and "full-attack" lines, rays should be the part of "Attack" or "Full-Attack" actions. In this case, a beholder provokes AoO when taking "attack" action and shooting rays. In case of Full-Attack action, the action itself does not provoke AoO. Thus, it may or may not provoke AoO according to "question 2".

Opinion 2:
Beholder is using free actions to take "use supernatural ability" actions when which makes attack or full-attack actions for biting. Thus, it may or may not provoke AoO according to "question 2".

#Question 2: Are rays are weapons?

If rays are considered to be weapons, beholder provokes AoO regardless of action types. If rays are not weapons, it may or may not provoke AoO according to "question 1".

Opinion 1: Ray is a weapon
Anything used for attack is a weapon. Whether it is physical, manufactured, natural, or not are irrelevant.

Opinion 2: Ray is not a weapon
Spell is not a weapon. Thus ray is not a weapon.

Hmm.

 

[sullivan]

So, by RAW,

#1: "Attack (ranged)" action provokes AoO because the "Actions in Combat" table says so.

Be careful of that "fact" in how that text is interpreted. Remember that those tables are summarizing data, so they tend to use abbreviated text that can drop some of the subties. If you look down below the table in the Standard Actions section under entry Ranged Attacks: you'll see that they only talk about ranged weapons (thrown and projectile).

Also, if you cast Defensively you don't normally provoke an AoO. Would you really still give the AoO if they happened to be casting a ray spell?

 

[Shin Okada]

If you look down below the table in the Standard Actions section under entry Ranged Attacks: you'll see that they only talk about ranged weapons (thrown and projectile).

Actually, that entry in PHB P.139 says,

With a ranged weapon, you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon’s maximum range and in line of sight. The maximum range for a thrown weapon is five range increments. For projectile weapons, it is ten range increments. Some ranged weapons have shorter maximum ranges, as specified in their descriptions.

I am not sure if it is safe to say "only talk about ranged weapons (thrown and projectile)". The caster shoots a ray.

Also, if you cast Defensively you don't normally provoke an AoO. Would you really still give the AoO if they happened to be casting a ray spell?

If ray is a weapon, yes. Casting itself will not provoke AoO. But shooting may be. Thus, if you cast a ray spell without taking "cast defensively" option, you may provoke 2 AoOs (provided ray is a weapon).

I am not still sure if ray is a weapon or not, though.

 

[Joker]

A little off-topic, but can a Beholder use his powers as a melee touch attack by smacking people with his stalks?

 

[sullivan]

I am not still sure if ray is a weapon or not, though.

The crux of what I was getting at is that ranged weapon attack is what appears to be ment by that table entry, not ranged attack. Note other entries in that section discuss spell specifics if applicable, Ranged Attacks does not mention spells.

A ray is not a weapon, it is the damaging component of what is explicitly called a "weaponlike spell". In the first two paragraphs of Weaponlike Spells section, page 85 Complete Arcane (in other Complete's as well), it shows that they are two different things. As discussed earlier, nowhere in the listing and discussing of similarities between between weapons and weaponlike spells is there mention of the threat of an [extra] AoO with weaponlike spells.

P.S. Transfering this to the Eye Tyrants Su is tough for me since i don't have the 3.5 MM, and the 3.0 MM is worded differently than described.

 

[Dracomeander]

The key point is that for a Beholder firing an eye ray is a free action. Free actions never provoke AoOs. The part about firing a ray as a ranged weapon merely indicates what modifiers apply to the attack roll.