And were that the only issue, it probably wouldn't have been a torch waving offense. But it wasn't. I refer back to a post I made in this thread about 90 pages ago:
For many of us who didn't like 4e and dropped it early, there are a number of issues that we found threw sand in the gears of the D&D we knew and preferred and, taken all together, aroused our ire at the edition. This bit that the current discussion is hyper-focusing on is merely one of them.
IOW presentation, not substance.
Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by upstream and downstream?
And no we’re not focusing on just one. Over and over it gets pointed out that every single one of those “sand in the gears” elements are in 5e. Every one of them.
Non magical healing and healing rates. Turning every character into a caster. Lack of mechanics that are not combat focused. Dissociated mechanics. Changed and rewritten monster lore. The list goes on and on.
But it’s okay because they don’t have 4e cooties on them.