Best Gestalt Combos?

[Hypersmurf]

I don't disagree. Though it seems to me "Psionic Sneak Attack" for which you must have psionic focus is sufficiently different from "sneak attack" to count as a different class ability. After all, if Skirmish and Sudden Strike are different from Sneak Attack, why not Psionic Sneak attack?

Because Psionic Sneak Attack says "just like a rogue can".

If there were a class that gained Sneak Attack while raging, I wouldn't consider that a different feature to the Rogue's Sneak Attack; I'd consider it the same feature, but with a limitation on when it can be used.

Just like Psionic Sneak Attack - the same feature, with a limitation on when it can be used.

-Hyp.

 

[Patlin]

Sudden Strike, if I recall correctly, has an entry indicating it counts as sneak attack for purposes of meeting prerequisites. It's basically sneak attack, but not while flanking.

Same feature, or different?

That's just another example, though. My real point is that the line has to be drawn somewhere... why draw it so as to exclude?

Of course, this is why your opinion is so widely respected. You only talk about what the rule is, while most of us (myself included) get hung up on what the rule should be.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Strongly disagree. I think you want a mix of active (spellcasting) and passive (saves + evasion, skill points, hit points, immunities) abilities. Having something to do when spells fail is also a bonus -- even if you can only do one thing in a combat-round, that doesn't mean you should limit yourself to only being able to do one thing ever. Anti-magic fields exist, as do golems.

As do spells that do not require saves, and do not have Spell Resistance. Picking the right mix of spells is key.

And there are easy ways to get past AMF at higher levels as well. Orb spells anyone?

 

[Nifft]

As do spells that do not require saves, and do not have Spell Resistance. Picking the right mix of spells is key.

And there are easy ways to get past AMF at higher levels as well. Orb spells anyone?

Sure, your attack is covered (so long as you're not the one in the AMF). But you're an egg with a hand grenade. It's better to take a complementary class which helps you survive all the times that it's not your turn to act.

For example, Swordsage // Fighter is excellent, because Fighter feats can give you bonuses that don't require an action to use (like Weapon Specialization or Iron Will), and Swordsage is notoriously short on feats. Swordsage // Cleric would be a bit of a waste in combat, because so many of your actions are spoken for (though it would have good buff + fight tactics, and great Wisdom synergy).

IMHO, you should try to pair an active-abiltiy class (Sorcerer) with a passive-ability class (Marshal, Paladin).

Cheers, -- N

 

[RigaMortus2]

Sure, your attack is covered (so long as you're not the one in the AMF). But you're an egg with a hand grenade. It's better to take a complementary class which helps you survive all the times that it's not your turn to act.

For example, Swordsage // Fighter is excellent, because Fighter feats can give you bonuses that don't require an action to use (like Weapon Specialization or Iron Will), and Swordsage is notoriously short on feats. Swordsage // Cleric would be a bit of a waste in combat, because so many of your actions are spoken for (though it would have good buff + fight tactics, and great Wisdom synergy).

IMHO, you should try to pair an active-abiltiy class (Sorcerer) with a passive-ability class (Marshal, Paladin).

Cheers, -- N

Well, when you double up on spells, you have the melee part taken care of (Shapeshifting or Polymorph). Since the OP never specified a level range, I am looking at the long term. The "best" long term gestalt character (level 20) would be arcane/divine spellcaster mix. They can do anything a melee class can do, plus cast spells. With the right feats, spells and PrC abilities, they can bypass AMF as well.

Addendum: A Psion would be a good sub for the arcane part as well.

 

[Patlin]

IMHO, you should try to pair an active-abiltiy class (Sorcerer) with a passive-ability class (Marshal, Paladin).

That's a usefull way to look at it. The Warblade/Artificer I mentioned earlier sort of fits the bill. Artificer has long casting times and reasonably long durations on a lot of infusions, and building magic items is obviously an out of combat benefit as well. As long as you don't go for a "blastificer" wand build, there's no reason not to concentrate on your warblade abilities exclusively once combat starts.

Of course, I also like the Warlock/Scout which doesn't really fit this rule. Skirmish and Eldritch blast are both active abilities, but you can use both with the same trigger. I supposte it depends on how you define active and passive.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Sure, your attack is covered (so long as you're not the one in the AMF). But you're an egg with a hand grenade. It's better to take a complementary class which helps you survive all the times that it's not your turn to act.

For example, Swordsage // Fighter is excellent, because Fighter feats can give you bonuses that don't require an action to use (like Weapon Specialization or Iron Will), and Swordsage is notoriously short on feats. Swordsage // Cleric would be a bit of a waste in combat, because so many of your actions are spoken for (though it would have good buff + fight tactics, and great Wisdom synergy).

IMHO, you should try to pair an active-abiltiy class (Sorcerer) with a passive-ability class (Marshal, Paladin).

Cheers, -- N

I agree with Nifft's insights into active and passive benefits--it's something I considered when making my flavourful gestalt-balanced classes. Also, I tended to give more abilities to combos that were a bit subpar to begin with (Rogue/Bard, for instance, is notoriously horrible)

 

[Kurashu]

.....

Yes. That is multi-classing. If you get the feat, with multi-classing with synergies.

Gestalt would be Scout 20/Ranger 20. That is different.

That's what he was saying. I haven't read the feat, but I have a feeling it lets ranger and scout levels stack for purposes of Favored Enemey and Skirmish.

And I don't know if you meant to, but you came off as a little condescending.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I agree with Nifft's insights into active and passive benefits--it's something I considered when making my flavourful gestalt-balanced classes. Also, I tended to give more abilities to combos that were a bit subpar to begin with (Rogue/Bard, for instance, is notoriously horrible)

"passive" abilities are all great and all, but I do not see how a melee/spellcaster is more powerful than a arcane/divine spellcaster.

 

[Jack Simth]

"passive" abilities are all great and all, but I do not see how a melee/spellcaster is more powerful than a arcane/divine spellcaster.

Spellcaster/melee usually has more HP, and probably a better reflex save, the the Arcane Spellcaster/Divine Spellcaster. Moreover, the Spellcaster/melee usually has less MAD.

Take, for example, the Sorcerer/paladin. d10 HD, Charisma-spellcasting, Charisma to saves, Charisma-based healing.... and as he only gets one action/round anyway, he can zap, zap, zap.

Compare to the Cleric/Wizard. d8 HD, Int and Wis spellcasting, turning, a few bonus feats. Sure, he's got spells falling out the wazoo... but good luck getting them all off. Meanwhile, it lacks the passive defensive abilities that the Sorcerer/paladin is enjoying. No SR, no full BAB for those attack spells (until you get to the point where you can Quicken Divine Power), and so on.

Take, as another example, the Druid/monk. Class features up the wazoo, all good saves, Wisdom-based spellcasting, Wisdom to AC, fast movement. Only two stats that are particularly needed; Wisdom and Con. Oh, and if the D/m decides to enter melee, lots and lots of options (monk abilities have no particular reason to go away in an alternate from, such as caused by Wildshaping).

Compare to the Druid/Sorcerer. Lots of class features and a metric wazooload of spells.... but three stats to worry about (Wis, Cha, Con), lower speed, can't use armor (arcane spell failure, don't cha know), and so forth.