D&D 5E Blees Still Broken/OP?

[Zardnaar]

Many moons ago (September/Octber 2014) on the WotC boards I claimed bless was broken or at least OP. At the time I had the PHB for maybe a few weeks and was noticing the clerics were using it almost every fight as it out performed every other cleric spell and the were even using it in level 2 and 3 slots and I have seen it cast in a 4th levle slot although that is a little bit rare. I also noticed the way it interacted with the concentration mechanic as well as the clerics were getting sick of having their spells interrupted so they would bless themselves.

Now days most clerics I see take the resilient/warcaster feat or start as sorcerers/fighters and MC into clerics. In the whats wrong with 5E thread here on ENworld I have not been overly happy with the 5E save system since the PHB came out. I am not opposed to 6 saves at all I just thought C&C did a better job of it. The crappy 5E saving throw system also feeds back into why Bless is so good.

Back mi 2014 the resident power gamer was also using GWF and Sharpshooter with hand crossbow in successive games. We were playing a lot of D&D with 2-3 DMs and 2-5 sessions a week. Downside is last November I may have burned out (although I played 3.0 a lot at the time as well) and we have not played since so I have not tested out my copy of the SCAG or started PotA or OotA. Switched to a game of Star Wars Saga Edition.

Basically seeing the same spells get used over and over again and for clerics its still bless. Eldritch blast, dissonant whispers, blindness, haste/greater invisibility, shield, various unique warlock spells are also popular but none of them compare to bess in the amount it gets used unless we have no clerics in the party.

My opinion has changed a bit rather than being outright broken I now rate bless as being overpowered bordering on broken as it is one of the few level 1 spells that is just as good (better?) at level 15 as it is at level 4. A cure spell is almost never used with healing word, prayer of healing and the healer feat replacing it. Shield of faith might also get used but it is rare compared with bless.

So just wondering what other peoples opinion is of the bless spell as I see it being mentioned a bit in other threads usually in spelll combos or in regards to feats such as great weapon fighting and sharpshooter.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Like any other thing that someone thinks is "broken"... it probably comes down to each individual table. If you don't have tables of power gamers (which I don't)... then Bless becomes a spell that might get used, but might not. Depends entirely on what the cleric feels like using their spell slots for at the time.

But then again... even if something is overpowered, it just means the DM can throw more difficult stuff at the party. I personally never ascribe to the idea something is "broken", because as the DM, I have a myriad of ways to screw the players over if I feel I need to for any reason.

 

[abirdcall]

Like any other thing that someone thinks is "broken"... it probably comes down to each individual table. If you don't have tables of power gamers (which I don't)... then Bless becomes a spell that might get used, but might not. Depends entirely on what the cleric feels like using their spell slots for at the time.

But then again... even if something is overpowered, it just means the DM can throw more difficult stuff at the party. I personally never ascribe to the idea something is "broken", because as the DM, I have a myriad of ways to screw the players over if I feel I need to for any reason.

I think you are missing the problem. If one option is far and away better then all other options, then that is a problem not because monsters are too easy, but because it is boring.

Whether that is the case with Bless is up for discussion.

 

[TwoSix]

There are some spells that are really just class features but are placed on the spell list. Hex, hunter's mark, healing word and bless are among them.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

It wasn't broken then, and it isn't broken now - it's just a spell that does a particular thing that your table's style keeps the focus on more often than not so its effects are exaggerated.

Because for your table and each like it where it is the go-to spell, there is my table or one like it where it is almost never cast.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I think you are missing the problem. If one option is far and away better then all other options, then that is a problem not because monsters are too easy, but because it is boring.

Whether that is the case with Bless is up for discussion.

I'm not missing the problem... I'm just saying that it's probably not a universal problem. It comes down to individual tables. It's never been a trouble at my tables, so there right there says that it's not a universal issue.

It might very well be a problem at Zardnaar's table, but there's no need to discuss it if that's the case... he already knows if it's overpowered or always used to the point when it's become boring. We don't need to confirm it for him. But if he wants a Yea or Nea on Bless's universal brokenness... then my vote is Nea.

 

[Greg Benage]

It's a great spell, but my 15th level tempest cleric rarely uses it anymore in important battles, simply because of the concentration mechanic. I'm using holy aura, spirit guardians or call lightning more often, depending on the situation. I don't know if it's optimal, but it's what I'm doing and it seems to be working fine.

 

[abirdcall]

I'm not missing the problem... I'm just saying that it's probably not a universal problem. It comes down to individual tables. It's never been a trouble at my tables, so there right there says that it's not a universal issue.

It might very well be a problem at Zardnaar's table, but there's no need to discuss it if that's the case... he already knows if it's overpowered or always used to the point when it's become boring. We don't need to confirm it for him. But if he wants a Yea or Nea on Bless's universal brokenness... then my vote is Nea.

Sure, but this is completely different than what you originally said.

You said nothing can be broken because you can screw with your players and the difficulty can always be increased.

That is missing the point.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Sure, but this is completely different than what you originally said.

You said nothing can be broken because you can screw with your players and the difficulty can always be increased.

That is missing the point.

No, I said that at my table nothing can be "broken". And that's because I don't care if something or other gets selected every single time because the person selecting it thinks it's too good not to take. For it to be "broken" means I have enough of a problem with it to ascribe that particular nomenclature to it. But I don't. Because anything the players go with, I can counter, and thus I don't ever have a problem with anything the players select.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

I think you are missing the problem. If one option is far and away better then all other options, then that is a problem not because monsters are too easy, but because it is boring.

Whether that is the case with Bless is up for discussion.

A very short discussion, IMO. How can a spell (even a great one), that is usable in only one pillar, be labeled as "far and away better then all other options"? Is there some misguided belief that bless is usable in all situations? And if so, the best choice for all situations? That's absurd. Even if the conversation was limited to "1st level cleric combat spells", it's absurd. You need look no further than, 'can bless restore an ally back from 0 hp on the cleric's turn'?