Bloodlines from Unearthed Arcana
- Thread starter LordBOB
- Start date
It is slightly better than nothing or an ecl.pbd said:
It still counts as a level for some things e.g. maximum skill ranks, and it increases some things e.g. a sorcerer 2 / bloodline 1 is treated as a having caster level 3 even though he only gets spells known and per day of a 2nd level sorcerer.
I'm not sure whether a fighter 3 / bloodline 1 can take weapon specialisation. Possibly not per the rules, but I'd allow it anyway. (Ignoring the fact he wouldn't get a feat to spend on it, obviously!)
IcyCool
First Post
pbd said:
Not true. Bloodline levels add to your caster level, and to your character level for purposes of determining max ranks in skills. And you suffer an xp penalty if you haven't purchased your required bloodline levels. Level adjustment is different. I have no idea why they chose to do this (I think they should have treated it like level adjustment, and avoided any problems). It certainly seems like they are treating bloodline levels like class levels, in a sense.
Personally, I'd remove the addition to caster level and skill rank ceiling, and treat them just like level adjustment. But as written, they aren't the same as level adjustment, and appear to be treated like some strange hybrid of class level and level adjustment. Which means definitively saying whether or not you can freely multiclass with them is a shaky interpretation at best. It makes sense to me, but may not be what was intended.
Nyeshet
First Post
Note also that having taken one or more bloodline level does not affect the xp cost for class levels yet to be taken. A Pal 9 still has to reach 45k xp to become a Pal 10. Thus, for the sake of xp costs, it is best to take all of your bloodline levels early - when xp costs per level are cheaper.
(IE: If you are a Pal 1 who has just achieved 1k xp, you may choose to become a Pal 2 or to take a bloodline level. If you choose the latter, you must now (again) gain 1k xp to become a Pal 2. Most DMs I know will insist that the second bloodline level cannot be taken for less than 2k xp and the third for less than 3k xp (for a total of 6 xp spent on the bloodline levels - almost as if using some odd form of gestalt) or that the second cannot be taken before level 4 and the third before level 7. I also know of several DMs who have their own rules for bloodline buyoff; some say it must be bought at the stated levels (thus 3rd, 6th, and 12th - substancially increasing the cost). Others state a continuous 5% or 10% xp penalty until xp equivalent to the bloodline total cost is paid off. Still others that all bloodline levels must be taken first - or that their levels stack with class levels for xp per level gain (ie: bloodline is indistinguishable from LA: minor is LA +1, no buyoff; a Pal 3, BL 2 has 10k xp rather than 3k xp).
Bloodline levels are - in my opinion - an odd setup that was not well thought out and somewhat ambiguously worded. My personal way of working Bloodline levels? BL 1 costs 1k xp and must be paid (regardless of BL taken) by 3rd level. If not, the 20% penalty applies - all xp lost going towards paying for the BL level until it is paid off. BL 2 costs 3k xp. It cannot be paid until after third level and must be paid before taking 6th level or the 20% penalty will apply. BL 3 costs 6k. It cannot be taken until after 6th level, and it must be paid prior to 12th level. So, in total a Major Bloodline costs as much to take as becoming a 5th level character - or a single level of difference at level 16 (due to the 15k needed to attain it).
Also, I enforce the idea that having a bloodline alters your appearance - subtly with a minor, but noticeably with a major. As such, some NPCs may at times mistake the BL3 PC for a monster; one with the Vampire (major) bloodline may be mistaken for an undead, for instance. One with a Dragon (major) bloodline may be thought of as close kin to a lizard folk due to the scales, bony ridges (where horns / crests would be on a dragon), etc upon their body. Such characters will be viewed with more suspition and distrust than other PCs. Well, an exception may exist for the Celestial (major) bloodline, perhaps.
Your DM will have to decide how he wishes to view / use bloodline. Depending on his view of it and his means of implementing it, it will either be underpriced, overpriced, or oddly priced.
(IE: If you are a Pal 1 who has just achieved 1k xp, you may choose to become a Pal 2 or to take a bloodline level. If you choose the latter, you must now (again) gain 1k xp to become a Pal 2. Most DMs I know will insist that the second bloodline level cannot be taken for less than 2k xp and the third for less than 3k xp (for a total of 6 xp spent on the bloodline levels - almost as if using some odd form of gestalt) or that the second cannot be taken before level 4 and the third before level 7. I also know of several DMs who have their own rules for bloodline buyoff; some say it must be bought at the stated levels (thus 3rd, 6th, and 12th - substancially increasing the cost). Others state a continuous 5% or 10% xp penalty until xp equivalent to the bloodline total cost is paid off. Still others that all bloodline levels must be taken first - or that their levels stack with class levels for xp per level gain (ie: bloodline is indistinguishable from LA: minor is LA +1, no buyoff; a Pal 3, BL 2 has 10k xp rather than 3k xp).
Bloodline levels are - in my opinion - an odd setup that was not well thought out and somewhat ambiguously worded. My personal way of working Bloodline levels? BL 1 costs 1k xp and must be paid (regardless of BL taken) by 3rd level. If not, the 20% penalty applies - all xp lost going towards paying for the BL level until it is paid off. BL 2 costs 3k xp. It cannot be paid until after third level and must be paid before taking 6th level or the 20% penalty will apply. BL 3 costs 6k. It cannot be taken until after 6th level, and it must be paid prior to 12th level. So, in total a Major Bloodline costs as much to take as becoming a 5th level character - or a single level of difference at level 16 (due to the 15k needed to attain it).
Also, I enforce the idea that having a bloodline alters your appearance - subtly with a minor, but noticeably with a major. As such, some NPCs may at times mistake the BL3 PC for a monster; one with the Vampire (major) bloodline may be mistaken for an undead, for instance. One with a Dragon (major) bloodline may be thought of as close kin to a lizard folk due to the scales, bony ridges (where horns / crests would be on a dragon), etc upon their body. Such characters will be viewed with more suspition and distrust than other PCs. Well, an exception may exist for the Celestial (major) bloodline, perhaps.
Your DM will have to decide how he wishes to view / use bloodline. Depending on his view of it and his means of implementing it, it will either be underpriced, overpriced, or oddly priced.
FEADIN
My love is on Asgard
Nyeshet said:
Maybe I'am wrong but I don't think that it's what is written, to become a 2 lvl paladin you will need 2k xp more, in fact to become a 3rd lvl character, the bloodline levels are strange, they are levels for xp and for level dependent benefits on skills, caster levels etc...but they don't give you hd, hp, save improvement, more spells...it's like "ghost" levels.
If you're right take the 3 bloodline levels as soon as you can to loose the minimum xp.
I think people are missing some things here:
It doesn't specifically state that bloodline levels allow a character to bypass normal multiclassing restrictions. But the example in the book talks about a multiclass sorcerer/monk with 2 bloodline levels. This could be due to the fact that the sorcerer/monk multiclass already is a bypass of the normal multiclassing restrictions.
IMO since bloodline levels only have a maximum of 3 total it would be relatively easy to have them not count against multiclassing restrictions at all. Especially since they are not really a class but a means of handling a level adjustment for a semi-racial trait.
It doesn't specifically state that bloodline levels allow a character to bypass normal multiclassing restrictions. But the example in the book talks about a multiclass sorcerer/monk with 2 bloodline levels. This could be due to the fact that the sorcerer/monk multiclass already is a bypass of the normal multiclassing restrictions.
IMO since bloodline levels only have a maximum of 3 total it would be relatively easy to have them not count against multiclassing restrictions at all. Especially since they are not really a class but a means of handling a level adjustment for a semi-racial trait.
