D&D 5E Blow it up! What class need to be completely re-worked in 5e?

[TwoSix]

Dood.

Is there, like, some type of "Troll Lowkey" Secret Club?

All the cool kids (and gnome paladins, and thri-kreen katanas) are in it.

 

[Oofta]

One other aspect of the game I'd like to address would be dexterity dominance syndrome (DDS).

DDS is a serious issue and should not be taken lightly. It leads to rapier shortages, PCs targeting your monsters with ranged attacks from so far away that you have to extend your map into your neighbors house, and players saying things like "Darn, my initiative is only 23".

DDS is a gateway issue that leads to sharpshooting, kiting and invincible reflex saves. Not to mention PCs with stealth scores high enough to hide behind blades of grass.

So just say "no" to DDS in your campaign. Enforce strength(athletics) checks by making people climb walls with a DC higher than 5. Throw in house rules like bows that make sense and require more than an 8 strength to pull.

Just remember, a strength based character is a terrible thing to waste. Only you can stand up to DDS. If you can find the sneaky little bastards.

P.S. this is only slightly tongue-in-cheek. Dex based builds seem to be way too common in many games.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Mistwell]

Sometimes, the title says it all.

I like Venn Diagrams. Yeah, I said it. Come at me. Anyway, when I think of two circles that might never touch, I think of TTRPG hobbyists and sports fans. And yet, there are a few of us. Anyway, I was recently thinking about the trend in the NBA (that's the professional league in the United States were very tall people are paid to throw orange balls through hoops) to say that a team is done, finished, stick a fork in them ... that they just need to BLOW IT UP and start over.

Well, if it works in the NBA, why not D&D?

I've been active on the Los Angeles Clippers message boards for as long as I've been active on D&D message boards...which I guess means since around 2000. And yes, I've thought about this concept applying to D&D rules as well

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[TwoSix]

A long-time D&D hobbyist AND a Clippers fan?

You, friend, have an admirable taste for the downtrodden.

Obviously a cleric of the Point God.

 

[Jester David]

Now, there's two ways to look at the "blow up the class" question:
1) Dump everything you know of the class and start again... from scratch. Just take the name and build from there.
2) Keep everything from editions 0 through 4 and Basic and redesign the class for 5e.

In the event of #2, I'd rework the fighter and the bard.

The fighter needs the concepts of its subclasses redone. But there also needs to be simplicity or complexity. I'd bake the complexity into the class via a different ruleset. Have some other class feature (Action Surge perhaps) be modular with a simple version for people who just want to hit stuff and an optional variant that gives more choices for people who want that in combat. Then the subclasses don't need to carry the complexity and can be more flavourful. And the subclasses could then also be designed to add more exploration and interaction based options to the class that don't work with the base fighter. So the knight has more social skills and honour, the gladiator is more entertaining and distracting, the dreadnought just doesn't get exhausted when travelling or from physical tasks, the duelist is flamboyant and charming, etc.
(You could add this to the existing game, swapping out Extra Attack for maneuvers - which could also work for the other classes with Extra Attack - but the fighter, with more Extra Attacks, would always get more. But it's a higher level option than I'd like.)

The bard just shouldn't be a full caster. That's completely at odds with the class from 1e, 2e, and 3e. Plus, as a full caster, its sacrifices a whole lot of more interesting bardic things that could be unique to the class for more spells, which are not very unique at all.
Make it a half caster. And by delaying spells until 2nd level, bardic music can be better at 1st level.

#1... I'd need to think on that more.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Maybe I have, and maybe I have.

Anyway, I've noticed that, yet again, I haven't been able to post a poll. Sorry.

Big shock ... wait for it ... I want to blow up the Paladin.

Ah, but the Paladin has Protection From Meta-Nukes.

It was given to him by his best friend The Gnome, along with a shiny new rapier that changes visual appearance at will to look like any weapon.


Seriously, though, my answer is the Fighter.

Actually, given free reign, I'd blow up the Fighter, Wizard, and Cleric. Maybe without direct replacement for the first two, and replace the Cleric with Priest. The weapons and armor thing can live entirely in subclasses. The base Priest serves a community or religion, not necessarily a specific god. So, if there is a pantheon, most clerics serve the pantheon first, and may or may serve a specific deity's "cult".

The Wizard needs to be broken down and rebuilt with some focus, IMO. 5e almost accomplishes this with Schools, but the idea that all wizards except a few standouts focus on one school of magic is silly, to me.

So, instead, we get a War Mage of some kind, who gets evocations, defensive enchantments, etc, can wear light armor and use weapons as a focus, and has spells that use their staff or weapon focus to hit things with elemental might.

Then we get the Arcanist, who is the wizard as scientist. This guy can invent new spells, and can learn the spells they see others use, but has a strong focus on knowledge and rituals.

The Illusionist is a trickster of arcane nature, with Illusion, enchantment, charm, and other subtle manipulation spells, and features that call to the class as tricksters and manipulators, like expertise in deception and Insight.


Then, we get the Fighter.

Is this class needed at all? I don't really think so, but I do have ideas for what would be an actual addition to the game, as opposed to the current subtraction of value.

Seriously. Fighters make the game less good.

So, instead of this "the human of classes" catastrophe, we build an armed martial arts master. A class that plays differently depending on weapon selection, but doesn't have to overspecialize in a single weapon. When the Weapon Guy (literally a better name than "fighter") switches from longsword in two hands to one hand free to sword and shield, he changes Stance, which changes how he fights. He does this as part of his movement.
As a bonus action, he can spend a Manuever Die to do a Manuever, which usually do things like add a rider to an attack, do a cool movement thing, change the next attack to a disarm or trip attempt with some kind of rider, etc, but can also be used to just boost Crit range, allowing there to be a subclass that is super simple and strait forward.

The Fight-dude-thing still gets Fighting Styles, and the Stances are based on them. They get more of them, though, and can only benefit from one Stance at a time.

Subclasses would be Schools, and secondary to Schools would be Styles or Forms or something, with stuff like Hard, Soft, Fast, etc. So, a Hard Form Zwiehander School Weaponator would play differently from a Soft Form Zwiehander School Weaponator, and a Soft Form Duelist and Soft Form Lancer would also play differently.

The simple route would be Hard Form Slayer School with only the simplest Manuevers chosen, like boosting crit range and getting static damage bonuses.

I'd actually play that.

Oh, and I'd take a smaller set of demo tools to the Rogue, because it's kinda fun, but still too damn broad in some ways.

And add an Avenger class based on the 4e Executioner and Avenger classes.

 

[Mistwell]

A long-time D&D hobbyist AND a Clippers fan?

You, friend, have an admirable taste for the downtrodden.

Oh yes. I had season tickets for a season the Clippers won 15 games (out of 82).

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

Never really liked the sorcerer, for starts. I think a wizard subclass would be more than enough to represent the archetype of a character who is naturally gifted with magic.

If the idea here is rebuilding the class from the ground up, though, I choose to rebuild the idea of a very charismatic character who is neither a bard, warlock nor paladin as a 5e version of the warlord. I was never in love with the concept, but it would make a lot of people happy around here, and it would be way more useful than the sorcerer, I'm sure...