D&D General Bob World Builder Recreates WOTC's "Do You Like Me?" Survey!

TheSword

Legend
It's because WotC lost a lot of people's trust when they pulled the OGL nonsense last January, so now people are panicky and overreacting to things. That's still 100% WotC's own fault. This wouldn't be happening now if they didn't destroy the community's trust back then. WotC needs to do some actual work on rebuilding / regaining the community's trust, then maybe some of this will settle down.
I’ve been tenth-man’ing when it comes to WotC for some time now but to be honest I’ve come to the conclusion they can’t rebuild the community’s trust. They are totally screwed by a toxic fandom that has become a self-sustaining entity. Youtube streamers chase clicks and outrage that instigates negative social media discussion which then rewards further click-bait in the echo chamber. It’s been on my mind for a while now and your comment gives me a convenient point to lay out some thoughts.

I genuinely think WotC/Hasbro need to just be very thick skinned and do their best to ignore these vocally disruptive (and yes I’d go so far as to say in some cases parasitic) voices and the noise they generate. They can’t resolve the negativity in boards like this through normal outreach methods for a couple of key reasons…

- Firstly the community only gets to see a small slice of WotC/Hasbro’s business decisions - usually just some of the outcomes that make it to the community. Often these are rumours only. The full picture isn’t seen and usually can’t be seen because of the need for employee confidentiality or financial discretion. A burned employee can say whatever they like, the company usually can say very little. The court of public opinion is very one sided. It’s very telling. WotC explaining themself just feeds the beast and prolongs the issue with more and more vitriol. That the sad reality of the social media age.

- We only get to see the negative elements of the business because those are the ones that attract attention or are deemed newsworthy. Woman-gets-long-term-job-at-Hasbro-and-enjoys-it, is not news as far as the community is concerned. Man-let-go-by-Hasbro is if the individual cares to talk about it. Or sometimes even if they put a brief allusion to it on X. Now the fact that some employees are happy doesn’t mean that bad things haven’t happened but it creates a grossly disproportionate view that everything WotC/Hasbro do is wicked, which is of course nonsense.

- Problems or failure aren’t accepted as part of business and life - they’re seized upon and revelled in. Exaggerated, replayed and fed back into the loop. Often with extremely personal attacks at individuals. That kind of judgmental attitude encourages a siege mentality. Not a mention a cautious approach to making changes and fairly defensive sharing of information, dare I secretive. I can’t judge them if they adopt a ‘Never Complain Never Explain’ atttitude.

- This is made by worse by the fact that social media community is extremely fast, never sleeps and operates 7 days a week 365 days of the year. Often the community expects fully considered and informed decisions within hours of a story breaking some corner of the internet one Saturday afternoon. This was no different to other scandals … Paizo for instance where managers were lambasted for taking to long to share their views… too long being not very long at all.

- The existing negative spin causes even positives to be chalked up to negative goals. Selling a lot of books is diving corporate greed. Developing a new online platform is trying to take away our books. Looking into new technologies like AI is stealing writers/artists jobs, making D&D beyond compatible with other systems is trying to dominate the market. I’m not saying these things don’t have huge benefits for WotC but my god they also benefit consumers. But that gets ignored in favour of the criticism. The ironic thing is that even when elements of the community get the thing they were complaining about, they often claim it’s now tainted or that it took too long.

- WotC can’t make the community happy as a whole with their product releases because the community is not one thing and while some folks like me like a more protracted stately release others want speed. Some folks want Ravenloft upgraded, some want it left pristine and untouched. Some want updated classics others want original products. Whatever they do, some group is pissed at them. This every single release gets attacked and in the context of the negativity around other elements means releasing great products just isn’t enough.

- WotC also are facing a community for whom a vocal group believe they are entitled to the products, ideally for very little or no money. For whom WotC are stewards at best and more often usurpers and racketeers. Look at all the demands for D&D beyond to release rules for free to those who bought the hard copy despite the fact that it’s a totally different medium that costs time and resources to provide. Just because I go to see Dune II at the cinema doesn’t mean I should get the DVD and free streaming as well because I’ve already paid for the IP. Similarly there are folks stuck in 1980’s think $50 for a full colour 250 page hardback is an outrageous amount of money and that charging that amount is daylight robbery. In essence a long term part of the customer base resent paying more than a pittance and don’t care that production values and inflation are significantly up.

- Lastly the community is full of folks that don’t play the game that WotC are currently selling. Yet that fact isn’t disclosed to more undecided readers before the old guard get the hatchet out. They play other systems or editions and couldn’t care less what WotC do. Other than the seeming need to constantly criticize it. I’d love a nice little badge under the title of each poster who hasn’t played 5e in the last 2-3 years so I can take that into consideration..

My advice to WotC - switch off the comments, and go to your players for feedback on your company and your games and not the RPG community.

On a side note EN World could help to combat the destructive negativity by properly enforcing its ban on political discussion by moderating the excessive amount of anti-capitalist rhetoric that keeps getting brought up each time WotC or Hasbro get mentioned. Working for/managing/owning a company isn’t a sin, neither is employing thousands of people and it’s pretty disgraceful that folks are allowed to repeatedly claim that there is something inherently bad about it… that’s a political stance.

TLDR: WotC can’t work with the community to get them out of their situation because negativity is fueled by self interest, large parts of community don’t want them to succeed and couldn’t agree on a solution even if one existed.

I’ll get my coat.
 
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overgeeked

B/X Known World
Well, I'm not an insider or expert. For all I know, we're on the cusp of a major sea change, and all we need to do is just yell at Wizards of the Coast a little bit more. (shrug) It'd still be nice to be able to enjoy things without people yelling at me for enjoying them.
That’s not unique to RPG fandom. That’s the internet. Some people love what you love, others hate what you love. If you talk about the things you love on the internet, you’re going to get pushback. It’s inevitable. Again, that’s not unique to RPG fans.
 

TheSword

Legend
That’s not unique to RPG fandom. That’s the internet. Some people love what you love, others hate what you love. If you talk about the things you love on the internet, you’re going to get pushback. It’s inevitable. Again, that’s not unique to RPG fans.
It doesn’t have to be inevitable. My response to that would be ‘do better’. I’d say it to myself too.
 

mamba

Legend
I’ve been tenth-man’ing when it comes to WotC for some time now but to be honest I’ve come to the conclusion they can’t rebuild the community’s trust. They are totally screwed by a toxic fandom that has become a self-sustaining entity. Youtube streamers chase clicks and outrage that instigates negative social media discussion which then rewards further click-bait in the echo chamber.
to a degree that is certainly true, there are some who benefit from the clickbaity negative videos and release them because of that. What percentage of the fandom is buying into this vs complaining about it vs unaffected is another matter however. What part of the buyers fall into this fandom that discusses things online is yet another matter.

I do not think that a large majority or players cares about any of that, there is a vocal minority (on both sides) that goes in circles without making much of a difference at all.

Personally I know exactly what I want from WotC to 'forgive' them for the OGL debacle (a proper 2024 SRD in CC and the 3.x SRD in CC) and what I am looking for in their behavior in general (wide support, both adding content to DDB and providing official content on Foundry is a plus in my book). We will see what we get....
 

Retreater

Legend
To be honest, I liked the unity most gamers showed when we banded together during the OGL crisis. It was exciting to see Paizo start with ORC, Kobold Press to announce Black Flag, etc. It was a rare time we could agree on anything.
Now, we're all divided again. And it's even worse than before. You have the WotC fans vs. the haters vs. 2014 purists vs. 2024 progressives vs. Shadowdark/Pathfinder/MCDM/Daggerheart/
every other game system fan.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
To be honest, I liked the unity most gamers showed when we banded together during the OGL crisis. It was exciting to see Paizo start with ORC, Kobold Press to announce Black Flag, etc. It was a rare time we could agree on anything.
Now, we're all divided again. And it's even worse than before. You have the WotC fans vs. the haters vs. 2014 purists vs. 2024 progressives vs. Shadowdark/Pathfinder/MCDM/Daggerheart/
every other game system fan.

Happens every time an edition cycles shrugs.

This is my 6th one.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
To be honest, I liked the unity most gamers showed when we banded together during the OGL crisis. It was exciting to see Paizo start with ORC, Kobold Press to announce Black Flag, etc. It was a rare time we could agree on anything.
Now, we're all divided again. And it's even worse than before. You have the WotC fans vs. the haters vs. 2014 purists vs. 2024 progressives vs. Shadowdark/Pathfinder/MCDM/Daggerheart/
every other game system fan.
It's going to be wild when all of these people discover that they're allowed to play more than one game without it being a betrayal of anyone or anything.
 


overgeeked

B/X Known World
To be honest, I liked the unity most gamers showed when we banded together during the OGL crisis. It was exciting to see Paizo start with ORC, Kobold Press to announce Black Flag, etc. It was a rare time we could agree on anything.
Now, we're all divided again. And it's even worse than before. You have the WotC fans vs. the haters vs. 2014 purists vs. 2024 progressives vs. Shadowdark/Pathfinder/MCDM/Daggerheart/
every other game system fan.
Part of the problem, I think, is the instant demonization of people we disagree with. To a fan of WotC, anyone who expresses even the most even-keeled and justified criticism (cough Bob cough) is labeled a “hater” and accused of being a troll or producing clickbait or “being overwhelmingly negative” or other nonsense. As we’ve seen repeatedly in this thread. People can like or dislike things without being a shill or a hater. People can love the game and hate the company. If you’re* so wrapped up in things that you* freak out over other people disagreeing with you*, maybe go touch grass.

* General you.
 


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