Booting a player from your group

[Voneth]

First off, don't give the news on game night. Even if they have played the whole game, it will seem like a waste.

Call the day after so they have plenty of time to look for something else to do. The best thing to say is that the PC they made is not working out. If they offer to make a new PC, then give them a chance and then try to address the issues. It they still don't work out, it won't be surprise when you call again.

If they don't offer to make a new PC, they tell them that different groups and different games have differenet chemestry and that you will keep them in mind if things change.

There WILL be some tension, but the sooner you put it behind you, the sooner they will. It's sort of like "Chasing Amy." A small problem ballons into a major issue only because everyone dwells on it instead of letting it go.

Even if you are stuck in the country and have no other role-players, trust me, it's better in the long run.

It seems to me that most of you guys are lucky. I have to kick someone out of every game. Part of it is was that I used to constantly try to find new players and new games.

Funny, the guys I had to boot out the most were hard-core AD&D players. All they wanted to do was combat and gunboat diplomacy. Now I play 3ed and I have to boot out all the "role-players" because their antics aren't that amusing or productive.

 

[Katerek]

Candidus

I read your original post and then all of the advice, thinking that they were good advice, and in the traditional sense they are.

You situation, however, is a little different. Actually far more complex.

If you approach the guy he is going to want to know what he has done wrong, and quite frankly it can be hard to tell folks that you dont like them.

I have been through this a number of times. I am a total gaming snob, and will only play with folks that I can stand. I am a total dic,k most times as well, I know this, so I typically only hang with people who can tolerate my own brand of BS. Needless to say our group is fairly eclectic. There has been a few times though where we wanted to get rid of a player that we didn't like on general principle. I will offer some advise in the form of telling you what I have done.

Like I said before, I am not generally known to be an incredibally nice guy to people I dont know. Once I had a player that I didnt particularly like and waited for him to slip up. Then I just blew it out of proportion and booted him. I basically made an Ass of myself. I was the bag guy and that was that. No one was suprised. Including the player. He knew that I could be that way.

Another time I just asked a guy to quit coming around. That worked really well too. He had been hitting on my girlfriend and she brought it to my attention that he was doing this so I just simply came to him and said: "You know how you have been coming over for a few months and gaming, and how we have been hanging out and stuff?" And he said "Yeah." Then I replied "Dont do that anymore." I never saw him again.

I had one guy get all out of whack and try to beat me up once. I laughed at him and he went away.

Most recently I had a guy that was kind of a turd and he kept questioning everything that I did! I am the GM by the way. It finally got to the point to where he was regularly sending letters of concern to the RPGA questioning my rulings! I eventually found out, and since I loathe the RPGA, that was all the ammo I needed. I was civil though and drafted a very polite letter and then read it to him over the phone. Then I posted it to eth eemail server that we all use for my game so that everyone knew what was up. I basically fired the guy.

My ultimate advice to you is to cater your rejection to his personality type. If you think that he is going to become physical or confrontational, do it via letter or email. If you could give a rat's aptooty about his emotions and you have little problems with guilt, then just tell him to bug off. Eventually he will rationalize things where you are the bad guy anyway, and if you can live with that, so be it.

If he is overly emotional and overly attached to the game, go easy. You definately dont want a Blackleaf Incident on your hands. If the guys has hardcore emotional problems then you need to have an old time intervention.

Good luck to you, I do not envy your position.

One finaly thing: And this is coming from a self confessed a-hole, make sure that there isn't anything that you could do to make things better first. Three of my best friends in this life started out as my most hated enemies.

 

[James Heard]

When I kick out players, and it's happened on more than one occassion over the years, I try to be as direct as possible about the whole thing. Basically you have to treat the whole thing like you would if you were firing someone, except that good thing is that you're not taking food out of anyone's mouths (ok ok, maybe some pizza) by kicking them out of a group. I've kicked people out on the short term occassionally, and I've kicked people out forever. I judge people a lot on the basis on how well they handle getting kicked out of a group actually, someone who shrugs it off and moves on gets a lot more points than someone who whines and tries to change my mind. I usually accept those people back the next time, no questions asked.

I've even kicked people out of other people's games that I was playing with - which is trickier. If someone is making your gaming experience not fun then I think sticking with that sort of situation is just stupid. Why would you do something that's not fun? If I think I'm not meshing with the group I leave, I usually consider it pretty rude when people who aren't meshing with the group that I'm playing in insist on staying.

 

[Gizzard]

Secondly, people do not always act like themselves when they game. Obviously, when you roleplay, you bring out different, sometimes hidden, aspects of your personality.

Totally tangent: Strangely, I know one player who everyone loves to game with because his characters are always cool, but very few of us want to hang out afterwards with because his real personality is abrasive. Probably the exact opposite of the situation you were imagining.

 

[Ulrick]

I just recently booted a guy from my campaign group.

Although his attendence wasn't at all a problem, he just didn't "click" with the rest of the group. He didn't really contribute to the game in any significant way. He would always keep track of what the other PCs were doing and slow down the game with his constant reminders of what the other players should do. When a ruling would go against him, he'd pout.

I and the other players would talk about him behind his back. He annoyed me and the other players. Finally, I asked myself "Would I want to be involved in a group where people say bad things behind my back?"

The answer to that prompted me to email him and tell him that he wasn't going to play in my games anymore. I wasn't mean, I just told him the reasons. No muss, no fuss.

I also realized I was violating the number 1 rule of DMing: "Never DM for players you wouldn't hang out with in another social setting or players you only tolerate."

I chose email because that way he couldn't give me a tirade and try to make me feel sorry for him. I don't have the time for that.

 

[AlphaOmega]

I just read all the posts in this thread and two things come to mind... actually three things now that I think of it:

1) There's some really solid constructive advice here. If any of us ever find ourselves in an uncomfortable position maybe we'll remember some of the pearls of wisdom left here. Petrosian, for example, had really good stuff to say and I wish more DMs had that sort of mindset.

2) I also got the feeling from some posters they actually ENJOYED and looked for opps to kick players out. I'd be really hesistant to join such a group with a DM that had such a power-trip addiction. Remember the first stone/glass house saying and the whole karma deal.

3) I'm lucky enough to have never been on either side of this topic. The people I've gamed with (past and present) must have realized it was just that -- A GAME. When it stops being fun, look for something else to do.

 

[Chun-tzu]

In my current situation, the problem is mainly that several of us in the group just don't like this guy. It's not that he's that bad of a roleplayer, or that he is incredibly disruptive (although he is sometimes disruptive). It's more that he just rubs us the wrong way, and sometimes says things that are quite abrasive. In short, he's just not somebody that I want to invite into my home on a regular basis.

If he's spoiling the group's fun, then it basically comes down to that, as far as the advice given so far. But it sounds like you're not sure whether giving him the boot is absolutely called for, so far. If that's the case, maybe you guys need to call him on his abrasive remarks.

My gaming club from university had a few gaming groups, and there was one group that I wasn't in, but knew all the players. One group member once insulted another one (the B-word), and no one called him on it. I know this guy, and he didn't really mean it, but those two have never really gotten along since (neither one games anymore, so it's not an ongoing issue).

I'm thinking, if you guys call him on it, one of two things will happen. Either he'll straighten up, at least a bit, and the situation will get better, or the group tension will increase, at which point you'll know that the situation isn't working and he's got to go.

 

[Helspar]

Because our gaming group's organization is largely on an ad- hoc basis, removing someone is as simple as not calling them back the next time we play. Its happened a few times. One player was a little too into the game, If you know what I mean. And another just constantly wouldn't show at the last minute. One was almost forcibly ejected from the premises (It was his first and last time he played with the regulars of the group) When he decided to lecture the rest on how crappy our characters were and an arguement sprung up over whether you could swim 200 yards underwater with no magical or mechanical assistance... Lets just say it was lucky it didn't come to blows.

 

[mythago]

Candidans, do you think the guy is salvageable? That is, would telling him "Hey, Bob, please knock off the [irritating behavior] during games, it gets on my nerves" be likely to get him to ease up?

If not, or if you really just don't want him around, a polite e-mail saying you're sorry but he doesn't click with the group, is probably best.

It's sort of like "Chasing Amy."

I must say that I like the idea of more D&D groups incorporating scenes from "Chasing Amy".

 

[Jolly Giant]

Ahh... The boot...

Done it twice, hated it. Had to be done though, so I tried to be as frank about it as possible. Told them sorry, but your gaming style just isn't compatible with the rest of the group. They had both been given clear warnings first, but neither seemed able/willing to change their style. It's unpleasant, but sometimes it's either that or watch the whole group slowly dissolve.