BoVD Thoughts

[The Traveler]

Re: Re: Re: BoVD Thoughts

I agree with your general point, but just to state it again- no one has seen BoVD. Wait and see. Wait and see!

Er, ok, Mr. Cook has seen it, but he is not one of the people you are referring to in your post.

Then perhaps a more salient point I could make is that I feel WotC is mismarketing the BoVD. Dragon very much is a marketing organ of WotC, even though it's published by Paizo now. Dragon's "theme" issues are often targeted at marketing specific WotC books, and the sealed section is quite plainly aimed at hyping the BoVD. I feel they've done themselves a disservice for going for this brand of horror in the articles they've chosen to promote the book.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Re: Re: Re: Re: BoVD Thoughts

I feel they've done themselves a disservice for going for this brand of horror in the articles they've chosen to promote the book.

While I think most of the "mature" stuff is fine, I would agree in the one spell that crosses the line.

When my subscription is up, I am going to have to take into strong consideration my interest in renewing it. Not just do to this once incident, but I am hoping the new owners do better with the periodical.

FD

 

[Kichwas]

Go up to the average person in the street and ask him what he thinks of Dungeons and Dragons. Count how many people say 'evil', even after the 80s furore. Try a public awareness test with any of the following names: BADD, Jack Chick, Mazes and Monsters, Dark Dungeons, Pat Pulling. Observe results. Draw conclusions.

One big review in a major newspaper when the D&D movie came out started on the premise that the movie was 20 years too late. The reviewer wondered if anyone even remembered a fad from 20 years ago and thought it strange to make a movie about it.

I emailed him and told him of the recent 3E and he responded saying something along the lines of 'thank you for the info, I didn't know the game was still in print'.

We are obscure. It's easier to find people into needlepoint or the breeding of hairless cats...

 

[Kichwas]

I'll agree with your basic premise, though. Rape plots in roleplaying are different. You're sitting in someone's home and there's a social pressure (if others seem to be enjoying the game) not to complain.

That doesn't mean it should be verboten in all cases or that people who want to see such content or discuss it ought to be labeled as immature or budding rapists or what have you.

With any darker theme, there are mature reasons to want it, and mature reasons to not want it. There are also immature reasons to want it, but a much smaller number of immature reasons to not want it.

The key rule is: if your game goes outside the PG-13 rating, sit down with EVERYONE and get unanymous approval for the ways in which it will stray.

The worst thing you can do is hit upon a topic that brings someone in your group into a flashback of a real traumatic experience. The second worst thing you can do is put something on a subject they find extremely uncomfortable and wholly unenjoyable.

 

[hellbender]

As someone who cowrote something called Hellbound, who watched as Faces of Evil and a Guide to Hell was published, who looks on his shelf by his computer to see Lords of Darkness, and Legions of Hell, and knows that in another room in the house there's a shelf with a book called Denizens of Darkness and other just simply called "Evil," I don't think the name is really risking much.

And owning all of these save Lords of Darkness and Denizens of Darkness, I don't recall hearing any furor over any of these publications, which seems to be the dividing line. All of these have been displayed and sold in local game/bookstores in my area, yet the BoVD won't be carried in stock and is available only through special order. That is what has lead to my concern all along.

I am glad you joined the discussion, and I buy a lot of your work, but I still disagree on the need for such a book, and much of the condescending and rude posts by some of the messageboard posters are just as alarming, considering those wanting the book know just as much about it as I do.

All in all, it is just one book I am not buying, and I am looking forward to buying the print versions of Requiem for a God and the Book of Eldritch Might 3 when they are available. I am not going to go anti-Cook because of this, I am just voting with my wallet on what I want to see.

hellbender

 

[Kichwas]

I'm envious. The biggest scandal at my games is there's this one guy who's really annoying but his wife is close friends with the wife of the guy whose house we game at .

(by the way, if this was some serious kind of problem for you and isn't intended as a wacky story, let me apologize up front)

The meth pipe is a true story but don't sweat it. On reflection it's a bit humorous...

It also suddenly made a lot of things about his behaivoir make sense.

The guy was always taking cryptic phone calls in mid game, taking about having hundred's of thousands in cash yet no job, and talking about people dropping by his house at all hours... He'd been robbed multiple times in the few months we knew him, and he always had a strange look about him...

 

[Monte At Home]

And owning all of these save Lords of Darkness and Denizens of Darkness, I don't recall hearing any furor over any of these publications, which seems to be the dividing line. All of these have been displayed and sold in local game/bookstores in my area, yet the BoVD won't be carried in stock and is available only through special order. That is what has lead to my concern all along.

The difference? The WotC hype machine. A label that says "mature audiences." (Frankly, there should have been one on Hellbound. There's nothing in Book of Vile Darkness that is worse than the stuff in Hellbound.)

My whole point was, there wasn't a public furor over Hellbound, etc. and there won't be one over BoVD. If there is any hubbub, it is among gamers and game professionals and it was artificially created, by WotC's own marketing.

I urge us all, whether talking about the BoVD or something else, to judge things for their own content, and not by the marketing spin.

 

[The Traveler]

The difference? The WotC hype machine. A label that says "mature audiences."

Which is again why I feel the book is at the least being a bit mismarketed.

In my experience, books with a "mature" label often either don't merit it, or try too hard to be "mature" and just end up being senselessly gross. Take White Wolf's "Black Dog" books for example. Most just get the "mature" label as a CYA measure, and the rest are just splatterpunk. Very rarely do you get a book in which the disturbing content actually furthers the drama. I'd certainly cite White Wolf's "The Shoah" and "Dark Reflections", both Black Dog. However, they were also both Wraith, and Wraith is a line I long have considered to be a cut above the average White Wolf fare.

 

[Henry]

This reminds me of a book... hmm... it must have been one by Steve Jackson Games, can't remember which one... it had a disclaimer like, "All the spells in this book are very real and working; the authors are convinced satanists and sacrifice children on a regular basis; if you try to diss us we will polymorph your cat into a hydra and fireball your house; what you should do is purchase this book and all the copies and supplements you can find and burn them".

I'm not totally sure, but didn't the Complete guide to Munchkinism start like this?

I also wanted to offer my thanks to everyone in this thread for the tone of civility shown all throughout. You ladies and gentlemen absolutely rock.

 

[Femerus the Gnecro]

I was really just hoping to find a risque iconic photoshoot in the mature sealed section.

Mmm... Lidda.

-F