D&D 5E Bringing Back Thievery

[DEFCON 1]

As someone who really doesn't like 'Sleight of Hand' as a skill because of how infrequently it comes up... reincorporating the concepts of pickpocketing and hiding things on your person back into the abilities to pick locks and disarm traps is a definite 'Yes' for me. Now whether that's by having Thieve's Tools or a Thievery skill... eh. Six on one hand, half-a-dozen on the other. Skills and tools are pretty much the exact same thing except Tools are like a non-magical Material Component. Lose the component, and you can't do the action.

Which I think is exactly why the items were split up... because they wanted the idea that you could pickpocket as much as you wanted, but that you HAD to use tools to open locks and disarm traps. I understand conceptually what they were going for... but I just don't see "fine motor skills" or "manual dexterity" nearly used enough to warrant having a skill for it. But you put lockpicking and trap disarming back into it... then you've got something worthwhile.

 

[TerraDave]

As noted, anyone can train during downtime to get tool proficiency.

I think, in general, tool proficiency is supposed to be more accessible then skill proficiency, not less so.

 

[Beleriphon]

Picking lock seems to be a proficiency with thieves tools rather than a skill, thus any character can gain proficiency with 250 days of learning and a gold outlay.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Picking lock seems to be a proficiency with thieves tools rather than a skill, thus any character can gain proficiency with 250 days of learning and a gold outlay.

Yeah, but let's be honest... with 250 days of training and some gold, you should be able to learn most skills, even the ones that don't require tools. Heck... 250 days is almost a year of 5-day-a-week classes. You can pick up religious knowledge or work on mountain climbing just as easily as you can in picking a lock.

The only difference between skills and tool proficiencies is that one requires a material component (the tool) and the other doesn't. So you can't pick a lock if you've had your thieve's tools taken away. You can't play a dice game when your gaming tools are gone. You can't play a musical instrument unless you have that musical instrument in your hand. Other than that... skills and tools are no different from each other. And really, there's no real reason why learning to craft poisons or all about cartography should be any easier than learning your kingdom's local history or how to cold read someone, just because the former two require a tool to accomplish. They're all abilities you just need to spend time working on.

 

[Branduil]

Yeah, but let's be honest... with 250 days of training and some gold, you should be able to learn most skills, even the ones that don't require tools. Heck... 250 days is almost a year of 5-day-a-week classes. You can pick up religious knowledge or work on mountain climbing just as easily as you can in picking a lock.

The only difference between skills and tool proficiencies is that one requires a material component (the tool) and the other doesn't. So you can't pick a lock if you've had your thieve's tools taken away. You can't play a dice game when your gaming tools are gone. You can't play a musical instrument unless you have that musical instrument in your hand. Other than that... skills and tools are no different from each other. And really, there's no real reason why learning to craft poisons or all about cartography should be any easier than learning your kingdom's local history or how to cold read someone, just because the former two require a tool to accomplish. They're all abilities you just need to spend time working on.

Well, you can learn more skills... you just have to take the "Skilled" feat.

 

[evileeyore]

Well, you can learn more skills... you just have to take the "Skilled" feat.

If I ever run 5e, that's getting houseruled.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Well, you can learn more skills... you just have to take the "Skilled" feat.

The point being... there's no real reason why learning a new skill requires a feat, whereas learning a new tool requires 250 downtime days and a bunch of gold (other than the fact the designers wrote it that way). Skills and tools are exactly the same thing except for the material component of the tool itself.

So turning one into the other or making learning one the same as learning the other or whatever you end up doing... is not going to cause any real problems.

 

[Shinju]

The point being... there's no real reason why learning a new skill requires a feat, whereas learning a new tool requires 250 downtime days and a bunch of gold (other than the fact the designers wrote it that way). Skills and tools are exactly the same thing except for the material component of the tool itself.

So turning one into the other or making learning one the same as learning the other or whatever you end up doing... is not going to cause any real problems.

This is my view on this as well.

I really don't understand why they made it a point of NOT including the non-tool skills in this training.

 

[Salamandyr]

Just an observation. It's possible to pick locks without thieve's tools. One just can't make the roll with proficiency. If one is jimmying a lock with a dagger for instance, there's no reason to worry about an improvised tool penalty. It's already built in.

 

[skotothalamos]

Six on one hand, half-a-dozen on the other.

There's an angry Spaniard looking for you.