BtVS - 12/16/02

[Vocenoctum]

the skin eater ep was a repeat. That was the second ep of the new season, the last episode was like 6th or whatever.

 

[Enchantress]

Oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[Jemal]

There's no way to tell if Giles is the first, or anything about it. There are three posibilities right now.
1. Giles is dead, it's actually the first.
2. Giles ISN'T dead, but it is the first in sunnydale.
3. Giles isn't dead, this is really him.

In support of 1:
The first can only impersonate dead people.
We never saw Giles touch anyone. (I actually didn't think that meant much, he wasn't big into touching anyways.)

in support of 2:
The first impersonated Buffy, who isn't CURRENTLY dead.
There was some reference, at an earlier time, that giles 'died' when he was young, when he was the Ripper.
(Off topic note: Anyone ever connect Giles being "ripper" with the british "Jack the ripper"?)

In support of 3:

The first can only impersonate dead people.
The first has no (from my opinion) reason to bring all the slayers together and give buffy a better chance.

As for wether or not the first can manifest in dif. places, it can. Remember the 'dead things' episode, where Willow's talking to the dead girl, and Dawn's in the house with the 'presence'? That happened at the same time.

Also like to say that Spike and Giles are the coolest characters on the show. I really hope there's a spin-off with one of them. (What I'ld really like to see, though, is Spike-with-a-soul going to L.A. to join Angel.)

Speaking of Angel, could this 'devil' that appeared in L.A. starting an apocalypse be connected to the first? (I hope Joss isn't missing all the cross-over possibilities)

I'm gonna stop ranting now. Enjoy.

 

[Vocenoctum]

#4) Giles is dead, and HIS ghost is there. The First has nothing to do with it

 

[Nightfall]

Speaking of Angel, could this 'devil' that appeared in L.A. starting an apocalypse be connected to the first? (I hope Joss isn't missing all the cross-over possibilities)

I'm gonna stop ranting now. Enjoy.

That's my hope.

 

[Jemal]

hmm.. I missed that possibility, Vocenoctum. Got any supporting evidence, or is it just a wild speculation?

 

[Morrus]

Giles being incorporeal and nobody noticing would be completely and utterly ridiculous. He's been with them for about 24 hours now - and not one person has so much as brushed up against him? He was in very close physical proximity to Buffy at various times in the episode.

Even if you could accept that rather silly notion that he can be in the same house as 6-7 other people for 24 hours and nobody notices that they can walk straight through him, the concept of his rounding up 3 slayers-in-training and bringing them all the way to the US without any of them noticing is even more daft.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Writer Peter David posted this on his blog:

1) Giles never knocked on the door.

2) Giles, the British gentleman, never helped with carrying any luggage or held the door open for any of the females throughout the episode. Nor did he seize a weapon when the others did.

3) When he arrived, none of the females hugged him, and Xander didn't shake his hand. This is such a stunning lapse in the typical physical behavior of the characters that it seemed like one of those nail-on-chalkboard script requirements. You know, where something has to happen a certain way because the script demands it, but it makes so little sense that it just strikes you as wrong.

4) Giles never removes or hangs up his coat, even when we see others do so with theirs. Why? Speculation: It wouldn't hang on a hangar.

5) When walking through the Christmas tree lot, the heavier Giles walks directly over the boarded hole that the much lighter Buffy promptly crashes through.

6) When Buffy is scrambling to get out of the hole, Giles doesn't extend a hand.

7) When the vampire is emerging from the hole, we see Giles is standing directly in front of the sun, blocking it. He blocks it so thoroughly that Buffy is looking straight into it and doesn't squint. Yet the vampire screams and falls back as if hit with the full force of the sun. Why? Because if Giles is really incorporeal, there's nothing actually there blocking the UV rays.

Some pretty compelling evidence. I rewatched the episode, and all the above is accurate. When Buffy sees Giles the first time, she moves in to embrace him, but then the Slayerettes cut in front of her. The documents that Giles "rescued" were being held by one of the Slayerettes. Giles touches nothing in the episode, although he does sit on things and lean against the wall.

I'm convinced.

 

[Morrus]

Well, if he is incoporeal, I'll be very, very unimpressed. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, but that would be stretching it just too far for the reasons I mentioned above. The idea that he rounded up 3 slayers-in-training, got them to the airport, arranged their travel, got them (and himself) on a plane, flew to California, travelled from the airport to Buffy's home, and then stayed there for 24+ hours with not a single person so much as making fleeting physical contact with him is... well.. bloody stupid.

Plus, what was he going to do when he arrived? Was he going to stand outside the front door with the slayers-in-training and wait for Buffy to just happen to open it? It'd have been difficult explaining that one to the three girls ("Mr Giles, why don't you just ring the doorbell?" "Umm...well... waiting on the doorstep is...ummm.. training....")

Nah. Buffy occasionally has mistakes, continuity errors and minor lapses of logic and/or consistency (as does any TV show), but that's just ridiculous. I don't believe that the writers would be so daft.

So, for that reason, I do not believe that Giles is incoporeal. Perhaps the director was playing around with us a little, but he's there and alive. Besides, all evidence to the contrary is fairly circumstancial.

 

[Vocenoctum]

hmm.. I missed that possibility, Vocenoctum. Got any supporting evidence, or is it just a wild speculation?

Just wild speculation, but it's as possible as him being The Evil really.

I've not got so much faith as Morrus, while I don't know that it's not the real Giles, I wouldn't put it past the writers to simply ignore any details that don't help their plot.

Like Buffy being able to close Dawn's portal because Dawn was made into a Summers. I could see Dawn being able to do something that required Summers blood, but how does Buffy become able to do Key stuff?
Blah!