Buffy Finale

[Sulimo]

The Buffy Finale just aired here in Australia...

Well, after watching that I very much have mixed feelings about it all. Whilst it was action packed, there were alot of things that bugged me.

Firstly, the ease with which Willow went from good to evil and back. I was really hoping that once whe'd gone evil she wouldnt turn back or at least for a long while. Wrapping it all up nicely really bugged me.

I really hope there are effects - especially in relation to the effects the scooby gang have had on the rest of the world - the whole trashing of a police station and the magic shoppe as well as breaking people out of gaol (presumably on film).

Then the whole deal with Spike. I was really hoping he would be made human or made him a true villain again. Another Vampire with a soul - that screws with all the prophecies surrounding the Angel series.

Then there's the moral position the whole team has taken - I guess previously I always saw them as ocupying ground similar to Superman - with the no killing of humans. More than a few of the statements by all of the gang shattered that image totally.

The only really good thing was the return of Giles...

 

[Staffan]

Firstly, the ease with which Willow went from good to evil and back. I was really hoping that once whe'd gone evil she wouldnt turn back or at least for a long while. Wrapping it all up nicely really bugged me.

Well, as I understand she'll be spending a bit of time next season coming to terms with her actions. Some of that will be dealt with off-screen during summer (which I understand will be spent with Giles in England), but I'm betting not everything is totally cool by the start of the season.

I really hope there are effects - especially in relation to the effects the scooby gang have had on the rest of the world - the whole trashing of a police station and the magic shoppe as well as breaking people out of gaol (presumably on film).

The people of Sunnydale are remarkably suggestible when given even the slightest hint that there might be a natural cause for something. Remember that Riley managed to convince all the bystanders that he was a Forest Ranger hunting a bear when he came to visit with the Missus.

Then there's the moral position the whole team has taken - I guess previously I always saw them as ocupying ground similar to Superman - with the no killing of humans. More than a few of the statements by all of the gang shattered that image totally.

Buffy has always taken that stance. The only occasion when she deliberately killed other humans was when hunted by the Knights of Byzantium at the end of season 5, and that would probably be considered self-defense. The only other occasions when she did think she had killed other humans, she was totally devastated. The first was when she thought she had killed Joyce's new boyfriend Ted (but he turned out to be a robot, and also wasn't actually killed, just temporarily incapacitated), and the second was when the Trio of Geeks tricked her into believing she had accidentally killed Katrina (when she was ready to turn herself over to the police).

Other members of the Scoobies have not been so "soft". Xander has always had a big of a vindictive streak. Giles suggested that Dawn could be killed if necessary to prevent Glory from opening the dimensional rift, he did kill the helpless Ben to prevent Glory from re-emerging, and he has the whole Ripper thing in his background. Anya? She's a frickin' vengeance demon, she's not going to object to Willow doing some vengeance herself.

The only really good thing was the return of Giles...

Giles' return did kick righteous ass. As I understand, he'll be in a bit less than half the episodes in season 7 - still just as a recurring guest star, not as a regular.

 

[Sulimo]

Re: Re: Buffy Finale

The people of Sunnydale are remarkably suggestible when given even the slightest hint that there might be a natural cause for something. Remember that Riley managed to convince all the bystanders that he was a Forest Ranger hunting a bear when he came to visit with the Missus.

And here I thought I had blanked the whole silliness that was the initiative from my mind.

I really think the city should investigate the whole breakout and the murders surrounding the trio. I'm guessing it will be totally forgotten though.

Buffy has always taken that stance. The only occasion when she deliberately killed other humans was when hunted by the Knights of Byzantium at the end of season 5, and that would probably be considered self-defense. The only other occasions

Other members of the Scoobies have not been so "soft". Xander has always had a big of a vindictive streak. Giles suggested that Dawn could be killed if necessary to prevent Glory from opening the dimensional rift, he did kill the helpless Ben to prevent Glory from re-emerging, and he has the whole Ripper thing in his background. Anya? She's a frickin' vengeance demon, she's not going to object to Willow doing some vengeance herself.

I guess what disturbed me were the statements from Xander and Buffy about how they didnt care that the two innocents (Jonathan & Andrew) lived or died. Of course in the end they made the right choice if only for selfish reasons.

Giles' return did kick righteous ass. As I understand, he'll be in a bit less than half the episodes in season 7 - still just as a recurring guest star, not as a regular.

Yeah. Interestingly for me my fave character has always been Giles on Buffy & Wesley on Angel*. I'm still angry with how Wesley has been treated - I'm totally on his side.

*Note I havent seen the Angel finale yet. No spoilers please.

 

[Staffan]

Re: Re: Re: Buffy Finale

And here I thought I had blanked the whole silliness that was the initiative from my mind.

I guess what disturbed me were the statements from Xander and Buffy about how they didnt care that the two innocents (Jonathan & Andrew) lived or died. Of course in the end they made the right choice if only for selfish reasons.

Well, the Initiative has been disbanded. Riley was now a member of some other black-ops thing that seems more interested in finding and killing monsters than experimenting on them.

And I wouldn't exactly call Jonathan and Andrew innocent. Sure, they're not as evil as Warren, but they've done some pretty nasty things over the past season. Jonathan seems to have a conscience (he seemed to be looking for a way out of the Trio ever since the incident with Katrina), but Andrew would have killed or worse in a heartbeat if Warren told him to.

 

[Ranger REG]

Andrew would drop his pants and drawers in delight if Warren told him to.

That kind of Star Wars fan scare me. Fortunately, he's fictional ... then again, his character may have some point of reference that the writers and producers observed in the real world.

Glad to see Willow is back. Now if they can get off that stupid "Magic is like Drug ... Just Say No" crap, I'd like to see Willow the Witch again.

Don't know if Spike having a soul would throw the Angel prophecy in for a loop, but then we haven't seen much of a crossover TV event this season, except mentioning their names. Heck, Angel didn't even tell Buffy he's a father ... or the fact that he likes Cordy.

While it was nice to see Giles, he's only making a few appearances, while trying to kickstart his own show on the BBC. Yes, the English actor wants to go home to his family.

Will US audience see another season (Fall 2003) of The Scooby Gang after this season (starting this September 2002)? I don't know. We do know that Emma "Anya" Caulfield will not sign on when her contract is up at the end of this coming season.

 

[Sulimo]

Don't know if Spike having a soul would throw the Angel prophecy in for a loop, but then we haven't seen much of a crossover TV event this season, except mentioning their names. Heck, Angel didn't even tell Buffy he's a father ... or the fact that he likes Cordy.

I guess. But from an in-story perspective any prophecy mentioning 'vampire with a soul' now will bring up the debate over whether it means Angel or Spike.

 

[Umbran]

Which brings up a question...

There was a known way for a vampire to get his soul back. Spike knew right where to go. Why, then, is the "vampire with a soul" so surprising?

 

[SableWyvern]

Which brings up a question...

There was a known way for a vampire to get his soul back. Spike knew right where to go. Why, then, is the "vampire with a soul" so surprising?

Was Spike after a soul? My take was he just wanted the chip out - getting his sould back seemed a rather nasty surprise.

Overall, I was pretty happy with the final few eps. There seems to be a basis set for a bit of stability coming back into the show next season. I was getting damn annoyed with the constant Party of 5 style angst all season long.

 

[Ranger REG]

Actually, I don't know if the reason he left Sunnydale is to get the chip out. After all, it does not affect him with Buffy, so he could kill her (or attempt to) if he wants to. It is probably what Buffy said and the incident in the bathroom.

I think getting his soul is not to fulfill the prophecy, but simply because, weird as it is, he's in love with Buffy. That is his sole motive.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Actually, I don't know if the reason he left Sunnydale is to get the chip out. After all, it does not affect him with Buffy, so he could kill (or attempt to) if he wants to...

Actually, Buffy is the ONLY human he can kill. Buffy came back from the dead wrong. It was in a re-run I saw recently, where Buffy and Spike tear a house to shreds, before doing the deed....