Dragonlance Building a Dragonlance character, according to DDB.

DarkCrisis

Legend
"Mostly" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Unless 100% of everyone there was evil and working to ruin the world, then genocide was not an appropriate response.

Which isn’t even the conversation I’m having. Especially since we’ve had this same talk before. Yes this is very important for you in game worth magic and elves and faeries.

The thing I was talking about is going from the gods make a godly choice to a boo boo. Which makes them inept at best.
 

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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Which isn’t even the conversation I’m having. Especially since we’ve had this same talk before. Yes this is very important for you in game worth magic and elves and faeries.

The thing I was talking about is going from the gods make a godly choice to a boo boo. Which makes them inept at best.
I'd prefer for the gods to be inept than maliciously genocidal.
 


cbwjm

Legend
From memory, the gods of good did try to stop the cataclysm, they sent warnings that went unheeded, they gave lord Soth the chance to stop the king priest, saving the world but ultimately they couldn't stop it, the balance needed to be maintained so it was out of their hands.
 

James Gasik

Legend
Supporter
From memory, the gods of good did try to stop the cataclysm, they sent warnings that went unheeded, they gave lord Soth the chance to stop the king priest, saving the world but ultimately they couldn't stop it, the balance needed to be maintained so it was out of their hands.
While this is true, the fact is, it seems kind of short-sighted. "Ok guys, the mortals are out of control, and the King Priest has become so blindingly good that he wants to ask us to destroy all evil, which is totally against our agreement with the rest of the pantheon."

"Well, can't we just go to the K-P and tell him why it's a bad idea?"

"Ah, no, we can't directly intervene. But there's an out, we can get someone he will trust to do it."

"Seems roundabout, I prefer writing messages on the guy's bedchamber wall in burning letters of fire, but ok. Who do you have in mind?"

"Lord Soth, he's a great guy!"

"Great, wonderful, fantastic. Who else?"

"What do you mean, 'who else'? Just him!"

"Uh....now, hear me out. What if this guy gets attacked on the road by bandits, ambushed by followers of the Evil Gods, distracted by needy orphans, or finds out his wife has been cheating on him, sending him into a fit of blind rage?"

"Oh come on, what are the odds of that happening?"

"Dude. Even if you aren't omniscient, I'm pretty sure Gilean is. Maybe we could ask him nicely if we should have another backup plan?"

"No, that would be cheating. We must trust in the Good of mortals!"

One Cataclysm later...

"So, yeah, about that Lord Soth guy..."

"Look, don't talk to me, ok? I have to figure out how to prevent the mortals from dying of famine because their crops have failed for seven years running. Dust! Dust, of all things! It's everywhere, it blocks out the sun, and it dries up the land!"

"Yeah well, that happens when you drop an asteroid on a planet. Whose idea was that again?"

"Ugh, Reorx bet us that he could use an asteroid just large enough to not wipe out all life on the planet."

"Huh. You know, it might have been better if we had. I mean, we can always start over, we got a few extra planets laying around in the crystal sphere..."
 


Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Sorry, indiscriminate worldwide divine punishment is just a vile concept.
Yeah. You can have similar events in settings (the Calamity in Exandria, the Mourning in Eberron) without having the good gods be responsible. In Exandria, the Calamity was caused by an evil mage summoning the evil gods to the planet, causing a world-wide war between the good and evil gods (which was catastrophic because of how powerful they were). In Eberron, no one knows why the Mourning happened.

"Big world-changing disaster" isn't the problem. The problem is having the good gods be partially responsible.
 

I posted my solution to the Cataclysm Paradox in another thread.

The way I'd personally do it is that the good gods can't intervene because they already HAVE intervened. They did it during the rise of Istar and the Kingpriest, to help this burgeoning empire of good and light gain power and spread goodness over the world. But they did all this on cosmic credit - this intervention of theirs means that the Evil gods can intervene with equal strength later. The balance can be written as thing that binds the gods too - an era of good now means that when the see-saw swings back the other way, it's going to be harder and more severe.

So even though by the time of the cataclysm Istar is really only worshipping the gods of good in name only rather than by deed, when the era of Good starts to die, Evil has stored up a really big hammer. The evil gods make their intervention, throw the mountain at Istar, and taunt the good gods that the trajectory of Istar proves that mortals tend toward evil, and tell the good gods that they'll avert the Cataclysm if the good gods supposed champions can prove they still have some innate goodness. The good gods know that their star is in the decline and can't do much about the cataclysm directly, without mortal participation. So the good gods have no alternative but to put their faith in the deep-down innate capacity for goodness and redemption of the Kingpriest and Soth. Oops. The good gods get it wrong, and the Cataclysm happens.

The good gods are horrified at the consequences of their hubris, and the neutral gods (who've sat it out up until now) are furious that so much knowledge, art, nature etc was lost in the Cataclysm, and the two groups band together and force the evil gods into the agreement to leave Krynn.

But really, there's several ways to do it. For instance, perhaps the gods knew that if the kingpriest's ritual was allowed to complete all Krynn would be destroyed as the Balance was permanently upset, and the Cataclysm was the lesser of two massive evils (of course, that doesn't explain why the Kingpriest didn't get squashed by a miraculously falling anvil one sunny Tuesday, leaving the rest of Istar untouched). Perhaps the gods DID send warnings to the kingpriest in letters of fire on his bedroom wall, only to be ignored because the Kingpriest was so deluded by then that he decided it was a trick of Evil. Perhaps the neutral gods and evil gods collaborated to cause the Cataclysm and the Good gods were either outvoted, or were powerless to stop them. Or perhaps there was conflict within the good gods too. Paladine exemplifies majesty, and maybe it was against his nature to stand by as a paranoid and arrogant human usurped the position of the Gods. Perhaps the Kingpriest's ritual would have had the side-effect of actually killing the gods, and it was an act of self-defence.
 


It is  possible that a brief blog post written in a flippant style by someone who isn't part of the development team for the product is not, in fact, WOTC's final word on the rather controversial moral framework of the original Dragonlance setting.
I strongly suspect that in the end, WotC will consciously avoid having a final word on the controversial moral framework of Dragonlance in the same way they avoided having a say on the messy pantheon of Ravenloft, or the messy and incoherent recent history of the FR gods. Speak in generalisations, provide minimal detail, gloss over the really illogical bits completely, and through sheer lack of alternatives, require individual GMs to decide all this stuff for themselves.
 

DarkCrisis

Legend
I strongly suspect that in the end, WotC will consciously avoid having a final word on the controversial moral framework of Dragonlance in the same way they avoided having a say on the messy pantheon of Ravenloft, or the messy and incoherent recent history of the FR gods. Speak in generalisations, provide minimal detail, gloss over the really illogical bits completely, and through sheer lack of alternatives, require individual GMs to decide all this stuff for themselves.
Especially since these aren’t sourcebooks. Just adventures with the minimum amount of lore to get you started.
 


cbwjm

Legend
it wasn't really balance... the kingpriest was evil
there was not too much good in the wrold

so then the 'balance' if thrown off was toeard evil and the good guys needed to balance...by doing an evil thing
Well things did balance put so I guess it worked.

Ignoring anyone's objections to the cataclysm, it does make for a great story. It's something that resonates with people throughout the world as pretty much every mythology has some sort of story of divine retribution against humanities hubris.
 



While this is true, the fact is, it seems kind of short-sighted. "Ok guys, the mortals are out of control, and the King Priest has become so blindingly good that he wants to ask us to destroy all evil, which is totally against our agreement with the rest of the pantheon."

"Well, can't we just go to the K-P and tell him why it's a bad idea?"

"Ah, no, we can't directly intervene. But there's an out, we can get someone he will trust to do it."

"Seems roundabout, I prefer writing messages on the guy's bedchamber wall in burning letters of fire, but ok. Who do you have in mind?"

"Lord Soth, he's a great guy!"

"Great, wonderful, fantastic. Who else?"

"What do you mean, 'who else'? Just him!"

"Uh....now, hear me out. What if this guy gets attacked on the road by bandits, ambushed by followers of the Evil Gods, distracted by needy orphans, or finds out his wife has been cheating on him, sending him into a fit of blind rage?"

"Oh come on, what are the odds of that happening?"

"Dude. Even if you aren't omniscient, I'm pretty sure Gilean is. Maybe we could ask him nicely if we should have another backup plan?"

"No, that would be cheating. We must trust in the Good of mortals!"

One Cataclysm later...

"So, yeah, about that Lord Soth guy..."

"Look, don't talk to me, ok? I have to figure out how to prevent the mortals from dying of famine because their crops have failed for seven years running. Dust! Dust, of all things! It's everywhere, it blocks out the sun, and it dries up the land!"

"Yeah well, that happens when you drop an asteroid on a planet. Whose idea was that again?"

"Ugh, Reorx bet us that he could use an asteroid just large enough to not wipe out all life on the planet."

"Huh. You know, it might have been better if we had. I mean, we can always start over, we got a few extra planets laying around in the crystal sphere..."
They did try the warnings first they were just ignored. Also if the King Priest succeeded he was going to enslave the gods so they all quite did not like him. Soth was presumably the strongest guy nearby that could defeat the King Priest in the short amount of time left, which is why they picked him.
 

Remathilis

Legend
He balanced it twice, once by breaking the Jedi order apart, and again when he killed the emperor (who somehow returned).
nothowforceworks.jpg


According to Lucas, the Force is in "balance" when it's in the light, and out of balance when in the dark. The Dark side is a cancer, and you aren't healthy when 50% of your body is healthy and 50% is cancerous, you're healthy when you're cancer free.

Anakin broke the balance when he killed the Jedi. Yes, they were arrogant and needed reform, but reducing them to a handful isn't balance. He became the Chosen One when he sacrificed himself to destroy the Emperor and thus ended the reign of the Dark Side and allowed the Light side to begin again with Luke restarting the Jedi Order.

(And then the sequels had to make all of that pointless as Luke failed to restart the Order, Kylo and Snoke restarted the Dark Side's reign, and somehow Palpatine returned, rendering Anakin's sacrifice meaningless and instead made Rey Palpatine the Chosen One).

So balance isn't "two Jedi and two Sith", it's "lots of Jedi and no Sith".
 

They did try the warnings first they were just ignored. Also if the King Priest succeeded he was going to enslave the gods so they all quite did not like him. Soth was presumably the strongest guy nearby that could defeat the King Priest in the short amount of time left, which is why they picked him.
take away the deathknight features and how awesome WAS Soth to begin with? I guess I never thought about mortal Soth before.
 


overgeeked

B/X Known World
It's the setting + adventure + comradery that makes a campaign, not your "so cool it will turn heads" half-dragon half-drow dual-wielding paladin of Mask (er some DL gawd).
I think you might be a bit out of step with modern D&D fandom. For a lot of players the only thing that matters is showing off how unique they are in character creation. Or they’re rocking a cookie cutter build with maximum power.
 

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