Dragonlance Building a Dragonlance character, according to DDB.

[Xamnam]

Seriously, I've never encountered anything like that.

 

[overgeeked]

Where the h*ck are you playing?!

Online. With adults.

ETA: To be clear, this is also a large part of the reason I quit playing 5E. Too much toxic BS and entitled nonsense.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It is in my experience. Try introducing things that limit creative character building and see what happens.

in my experence they just ask why, and as long as you have a good story reason they roll with it.

Pre-gens.

I use those at Cons, but I don't have time or energy to make them for a campaign.

Random stats. Random, in order stats.

I personally don't like those so I wouldn't. do that... I did have to use random in order stats in my current game and it totally ruined what I wanted to play... but it did end up with a funny character

Spoiler: stats after race

15str 16 dex 18 con 20 int 18 WIs 15 Cha
so I was going to play a meek bookish nerd... but I couldn't justify that so I made a multi class artificer(battlesmith) wizard(bladesinger) that everything came easy to so he is lazy.

Restricted races, classes, subclasses, feats, spells, etc. Anything that curtails the “I’m so unique and special” vibe is anathema. Even if no one planned on using it.

I only see this with players that played in 3.5 and pathfinder, new players are normally "Cool what options can I pick from"

It’s not about new or younger players. It’s a play culture thing. The entire OC style is based on it. And that seems like a hugely outsized part of the fan base at the moment.

I have so many friends (through my fiancé) that do the other roleplayer thing with OCs and this isn't like any of them...

 

[darjr]

Online. With adults.

ETA: To be clear, this is also a large part of the reason I quit playing 5E. Too much toxic BS and entitled nonsense.

This doesn’t actually answer the question?

“Online” is a big place.

Feel free not to answer but I was wondering where on line? Or how do you get your players?

I don’t do a ton on line but I have done some and if I encountered this as a problem I’d come to a much different diagnosis than I think you have.

 

[bedir than]

Building original characters is toxic and entitled is not a position I ever expected to see

 

[Azzy]

By way of example for this phenomena, I just had a new player enter my group. The first things he asked were, "Can I play a homebrew race?" "Do you allow multiclassing?" And, "How much backstory can I give you?".

Yeah, and? Nothing that didn't happen back in the 80s. Heck, we even had a magazine or two that published people's homebrew stuff.

 

[Azzy]

Building original characters is toxic and entitled is not a position I ever expected to see

Right?

Mist play Bob 1, Bob 2, Bob 3, and Bob 4 with no backstory instead.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Building original characters is toxic and entitled is not a position I ever expected to see

I had someone tell me in one of the (now closed) Dragon Lance threads that in 1e (TBF i started in 2e) making a character from the PHB wasn't expected, you would play pregens and (I guess this is where the joke I always hear is from) if your character dies you take the same pregen and (maybe) change the name and that is your new character...

now others said that was not there experience, but the fact that that was SOMEONEs means this happens.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yeah, and? Nothing that didn't happen back in the 80s. Heck, we even had a magazine or two that published people's homebrew stuff.

in the 90s not only would we have dozens of 'splat books' and magazine options but people would be like "I built my own class with fighter thac0 and theives skills and some spells"

 

[Remathilis]

in the 90s not only would we have dozens of 'splat books' and magazine options but people would be like "I built my own class with fighter thac0 and theives skills and some spells"

Ah, the "custom class" rule from DMG 2e. I'm sure they meant well, but calling that system half-baked is giving it half too much credit.

That said, one of the best guys I ever played with initially joined our group wanting to play some shapechanger custom class in 2e. DM said no, so he opted for a 2e psionicist and he was one of the most fun (and broken) characters I'd ever seen. That was the late 90s.

 

[Remathilis]

It is in my experience. Try introducing things that limit creative character building and see what happens. Pre-gens. Random stats. Random, in order stats. Restricted races, classes, subclasses, feats, spells, etc. Anything that curtails the “I’m so unique and special” vibe is anathema. Even if no one planned on using it.

It’s not about new or younger players. It’s a play culture thing. The entire OC style is based on it. And that seems like a hugely outsized part of the fan base at the moment.

Hey, while you're at it, go ahead and play my character for me too. I'll be busy looking for another DM.

 

[Velderan]

I had someone tell me in one of the (now closed) Dragon Lance threads that in 1e (TBF i started in 2e) making a character from the PHB wasn't expected, you would play pregens and (I guess this is where the joke I always hear is from) if your character dies you take the same pregen and (maybe) change the name and that is your new character...

now others said that was not there experience, but the fact that that was SOMEONEs means this happens.

That was me. The modules in a couple places encouraged you to use the pregen characters and if any important character dies, you were encouraged to invoke the "obscure death" rule to replace them. Here's an example from DL2 for Laurana:

If the PCs do not enter the room before Laurana is dragged out, she is taken before Verminaard. If not rescued by the heroes, she dies an “obscure death” and will return in a
later module.

This is from DL3, with the bolded part showing how PCs were treated if not a pregen:

Because DRAGONLANCE is a story, both heroes and villains often figure prominently in later modules. If “name” characters or villains should be killed, arrange “obscure deaths” for them. Their bodies should not be found. Think up a creative explanation for their “miraculous” survival. For example, a character tumbles down a 500 foot shaft to
certain death. Several modules later, the character reappears with a story about how he landed on a ledge and was knocked out. Much later, he came to, and spent weeks recovering and escaping. Some characters can die permanently. When a “name” character no longer plays a part in the story, his death can occur. Player characters brought into this adventure from outside can be killed normally.

 

[Velderan]

Online. With adults.

ETA: To be clear, this is also a large part of the reason I quit playing 5E. Too much toxic BS and entitled nonsense.

Online with adults who are friends or online with random people you've met on Reddit? I'm not sure how that's a 5E problem, I've seen people have similar arguments even back in the late 2E days because some tables used the Player's Options series of books and some didn't.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Hey, while you're at it, go ahead and play my character for me too. I'll be busy looking for another DM.

That's a pretty extreme view, IMO. Restrictions on character creation are not the same thing as "play my character for me". I certainly wouldn't let any such restrictions prevent me from playing in a game I otherwise liked, no matter the reason.

 

[overgeeked]

This doesn’t actually answer the question?

“Online” is a big place.

Feel free not to answer but I was wondering where on line? Or how do you get your players?

I don’t do a ton on line but I have done some and if I encountered this as a problem I’d come to a much different diagnosis than I think you have.

Mostly Roll20.

Online with adults who are friends or online with random people you've met on Reddit? I'm not sure how that's a 5E problem, I've seen people have similar arguments even back in the late 2E days because some tables used the Player's Options series of books and some didn't.

It's a 5E problem as I don't have the same issue when playing on the same site using other game systems. Even other D&D variants it's not a problem. AD&D, OSE, DCC, 4E...no issues. Only with 5E players, in my experience.

Building original characters is toxic and entitled is not a position I ever expected to see

You still haven't. But that's a nice strawman you have there.

That's a pretty extreme view, IMO. Restrictions on character creation are not the same thing as "play my character for me". I certainly wouldn't let any such restrictions prevent me from playing in a game I otherwise liked, no matter the reason.

Right? They're literally saying that if there's any restrictions on character creation at all I might as well play the character for them. I mean thanks for proving my point for me other poster.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Building original characters is toxic and entitled is not a position I ever expected to see

"If your character isn't a rip-off of Drizzt, Gandalf, or Bilbo Baggins, you're not allowed at my table!"

This whole "making original/unique characters is bad/selfish" is nonsense. Not every player that wants to play a unique character is a spotlight hog.

 

[humble minion]

I would really love it if we could have just one Dragonlance thread that didn't degenerate into the same people having the same arguments about PCs races and character choice and setting history/integrity for hundreds and hundreds of posts.

 

[James Gasik]

I would really love it if we could have just one Dragonlance thread that didn't degenerate into the same people having the same arguments about PCs races and character choice and setting history/integrity for hundreds and hundreds of posts.

You could try making a "+" thread?

 

[Micah Sweet]

"If your character isn't a rip-off of Drizzt, Gandalf, or Bilbo Baggins, you're not allowed at my table!"

This whole "making original/unique characters is bad/selfish" is nonsense. Not every player that wants to play a unique character is a spotlight hog.

Not causation, but I have seen a strong correlation.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"If your character isn't a rip-off of Drizzt, Gandalf, or Bilbo Baggins, you're not allowed at my table!"

I'm old enough to remember when wanting to be a rip off of Drizzt was the red flag, not making a new character.