Dragonlance Building a Dragonlance character, according to DDB.

I think you might be a bit out of step with modern D&D fandom. For a lot of players the only thing that matters is showing off how unique they are in character creation. Or they’re rocking a cookie cutter build with maximum power.
is this true? as I interact more and more with younger players I find they are more likely to want to show off flaws and role play things I would have wanted to hit 'skip' on when I was a teen.
 

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Fifinjir

Explorer
I posted my solution to the Cataclysm Paradox in another thread.



But really, there's several ways to do it. For instance, perhaps the gods knew that if the kingpriest's ritual was allowed to complete all Krynn would be destroyed as the Balance was permanently upset, and the Cataclysm was the lesser of two massive evils (of course, that doesn't explain why the Kingpriest didn't get squashed by a miraculously falling anvil one sunny Tuesday, leaving the rest of Istar untouched).
How I would play this is that the Kingpriest’s apotheosis was succeeding and he was on the cusp of becoming the god of self-righteousness, who would lead all of Krynn right to Baator under the delusion they were doing Celestia’s work. By the time the Soth idea failed, the Kingpriest was simply too powerful to be taken down with “the scalpel” and “the hammer” was all that’s left. Not to mention his ideals were already starting to corrupt the zeitgeist of the whole world. There was no promise that the next guy down wouldn’t just do the same thing.

EDIT: In fact, I’ll state it even stronger, someone would keep taking the place of the Kingpriest so long as Ishtar was even a concept.
 
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I don't think this is a thing with most new players.
I think people are confusing "new" and "young". The desire to create characters who are super-powerful or super-edgy is a trait I would associate with young players. And not much has changed there. But many new players are not young. The expansion of the game means many people are starting to play when they are properly grown-up.
 

How I would play this is that the Kingpriest’s apotheosis was succeeding and he was on the cusp of becoming the god of self-righteousness, who would lead all of Krynn right to Baator under the delusion they were doing Celestia’s work. By the time the Soth idea failed, the Kingpriest was simply too powerful to be taken down with “the scalpel” and “the hammer” was all that’s left. Not to mention his ideals were already starting to corrupt the zeitgeist of the whole world. There was no promise that the next guy down wouldn’t just do the same thing.

EDIT: In fact, I’ll state it even stronger, someone would keep taking the place of the Kingpriest so long as Ishtar was even a concept.
There is a book and short story that provides alternate worlds of Krynn where the timeline went differently. One of them is the Gods don't bring down the Cataclysm before the Kingpriest succeeds in his ritual. He drains the gods of their power becoming the sole being able to grant divine power with the gods being left alive but constantly being tortured. His ritual also causes a backlash that kills 1 in 3 of all living things, with Clerics of the new Godpriest stating those who died were weak in the faith. His Empire then becomes expansionist and tries to take over the rest of the world, and are brainwashing those that oppose them into emotionless beings unquestionably loyal to the faith as it's called.
 

Libertad

Hero
Rock gnomes cover mad gnomes pretty well (and we can assume all PC gnomes are mad, by the Mt. Nevermind definition).

I don't think an actual society of nature loving gnomes has been seen before.

In the 3rd Edition sourcebook Spectre of Sorrows (which was part of a 1st to 20th level AP collectively known as the Key of Destiny Adventure Path), there was a gnomish community known as Picketville. It was made as a research colony in the Great Moors of northern Ansalon, and due to being cut off from their homeland for quite some time they formed their own culture. While they make use of gnomish technology such as hydroponic gardens and phosphorescent fungi as light sources, they developed a reverence for nature. There's even a shrine to Chislev (the nature goddess) maintained, where the chief biologist combined religious worship with scientific research.

They were a subrace of gnomes known as Wild Gnomes, and applied their strange and haphazard technological know-how to breeding unique animals and plants.
 

Libertad

Hero
There is a book and short story that provides alternate worlds of Krynn where the timeline went differently. One of them is the Gods don't bring down the Cataclysm before the Kingpriest succeeds in his ritual. He drains the gods of their power becoming the sole being able to grant divine power with the gods being left alive but constantly being tortured. His ritual also causes a backlash that kills 1 in 3 of all living things, with Clerics of the new Godpriest stating those who died were weak in the faith. His Empire then becomes expansionist and tries to take over the rest of the world, and are brainwashing those that oppose them into emotionless beings unquestionably loyal to the faith as it's called.

This sourcebook is Legends of the Twins, also for 3rd Edition. I actually wrote up a review of it nearly 3 years ago. In addition to presenting campaign ideas in various eras of the "main timeline," it also had alternate timelines where history proceeded differently. The one MonsterEnvy is talking about is Kingpriest Ascendant, where he succeeds in overcoming the gods of Krynn and attaining godhood himself. The other 5 timelines include the Heroes of the Lance losing, the Orders of High Sorcery helping rebuild Krynn after the Cataclysm and form a continental magocracy, one where the world is ending due to Raistlin killing off the gods, one where a supernatural winter falls over Krynn and the Knights of Takhisis create corrupted dragonlances, and one where the Second Cataclysm doesn't happen and Takhisis doesn't steal the world away. This last one, the Age of Dragons, is actually quite popular among the Dragonlance fandom. Not only does it not cheapen the original Cataclysm and War of the Lance by throwing yet another "fate of the world hangs in the balance" plot, it also is more of a "cold war" with political intrigue between the nations who settled in an uneasy peace.

 

Cruentus

Adventurer
I think people are confusing "new" and "young". The desire to create characters who are super-powerful or super-edgy is a trait I would associate with young players. And not much has changed there. But many new players are not young. The expansion of the game means many people are starting to play when they are properly grown-up.
Not IME. I have a player (playing in our group 40+ years) who continues to munchkin super powered characters still. Give him a ruleset, and he'll break it to his advantage. My son, who started playing at 11 or 12 went for a necromancer wizard, very basic. Almost like its impossible to broadly categorize players into camps, especially considering how many "new to RP" players there are, of any age.

I'm going to continue to watch how this unfolds, but based on how people on EN have been discussing this particular release, I'm super glad I have a long standing group to play whatever setting in. I might even stop visiting here till the book is out in the wild and things go back to business as usual.
 



Micah Sweet

Legend
As opposed to creating generic characters that have been done before?

Sad generational warring is sad.
By way of example for this phenomena, I just had a new player enter my group. The first things he asked were, "Can I play a homebrew race?" "Do you allow multiclassing?" And, "How much backstory can I give you?".
 

Micah Sweet

Legend
This sourcebook is Legends of the Twins, also for 3rd Edition. I actually wrote up a review of it nearly 3 years ago. In addition to presenting campaign ideas in various eras of the "main timeline," it also had alternate timelines where history proceeded differently. The one MonsterEnvy is talking about is Kingpriest Ascendant, where he succeeds in overcoming the gods of Krynn and attaining godhood himself. The other 5 timelines include the Heroes of the Lance losing, the Orders of High Sorcery helping rebuild Krynn after the Cataclysm and form a continental magocracy, one where the world is ending due to Raistlin killing off the gods, one where a supernatural winter falls over Krynn and the Knights of Takhisis create corrupted dragonlances, and one where the Second Cataclysm doesn't happen and Takhisis doesn't steal the world away. This last one, the Age of Dragons, is actually quite popular among the Dragonlance fandom. Not only does it not cheapen the original Cataclysm and War of the Lance by throwing yet another "fate of the world hangs in the balance" plot, it also is more of a "cold war" with political intrigue between the nations who settled in an uneasy peace.

My favorite Dragonlance sourcebook.
 



Micah Sweet

Legend
this is you picking a fight where there is none... I am asking "Is that true?" trying to open discussion not trying to counter or say you are wrong... my experience is different and neither of us have enough evidence to say what is the right one. so I am asking, IS THIS TRUE?
Fair enough. It is not universally true IME, but I have seen multiple examples of it, from different age groups. It's definitely a thing.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
is this true? as I interact more and more with younger players I find they are more likely to want to show off flaws and role play things I would have wanted to hit 'skip' on when I was a teen.
It is in my experience. Try introducing things that limit creative character building and see what happens. Pre-gens. Random stats. Random, in order stats. Restricted races, classes, subclasses, feats, spells, etc. Anything that curtails the “I’m so unique and special” vibe is anathema. Even if no one planned on using it.

It’s not about new or younger players. It’s a play culture thing. The entire OC style is based on it. And that seems like a hugely outsized part of the fan base at the moment.
 

take away the deathknight features and how awesome WAS Soth to begin with? I guess I never thought about mortal Soth before.
From what I recall of his backstory, his family lands were inherited by him at a young age because his father was not a knight. As a young knight, Soth became a lord and that probably gave him an ego for accomplishing so much so fast.
 

darjr

I crit!
It is in my experience. Try introducing things that limit creative character building and see what happens. Pre-gens. Random stats. Random, in order stats. Restricted races, classes, subclasses, feats, spells, etc. Anything that curtails the “I’m so unique and special” vibe is anathema. Even if no one planned on using it.

It’s not about new or younger players. It’s a play culture thing. The entire OC style is based on it. And that seems like a hugely outsized part of the fan base at the moment.
Where the h*ck are you playing?!
 

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