D&D 5E "But Wizards Can Fly, Teleport and Turn People Into Frogs!"

[TwoSix]

When another player exerts narrative control, the controlling player doesn't get that luxury. He has to explain in his fiction what happened that he made the decision he did. Why did he approach the spider? How does that play off his complete revulsion to them?

And in a game with narrative tendencies, that's an opportunity, not a penalty.

 

[Imaro]

And the further it goes in the other direction, the bigger of a problem I have. I don't see this point of contention as being resolved.

Not that I think it's not worth talking about. I was converted from being on the fence about 4e to a big supporter because of threads just like these, and introduced to the whole concept of story games to boot.

I think that mechanics like the fighter's mark (-2 and a free attack unless...) or the compels in FATE (here's a fate point if you do...) are superior to mechanics like CaGi for this type of thing. With these types of mechanics choice is always on the table, but pressure or influence is created by the mechanics to try and push you towards a particular decision.

 

[Nagol]

And in a game with narrative tendencies, that's an opportunity, not a penalty.

Absolutely! And when I'm running Sorceror, it'd be great to delve into!

but I don't want to play it.

 

[Guest 85555]

I don't buy the "magic can do anything" explanation, but we can fortunately bypass it with dragons, whose fear power is specifically (Ex) or non-magical.

i do buy that magic is distinct from mundane things in the setting.

Charging or flying over targets makes those targets afraid. And when afraid, they do certain things set down in the rules. This is probably not the only time they are afraid, and some classes have outright immunity to "fear effects." Still, exact movement paths aside, you don't get to choose how your character reacts to being afraid from an explicitly non-magical source.

So in those cases - My Fighter is brave. Why don't I get to choose how he reacts to being scared?

-O

And like I said, this is an example of conditional fear (massive big dragon, that can eat you, flying over head). Read my post again and you will see I made room for this kind of thing. While it isn't my favorite mechanic in the world, something like dragon awe is different from say a mundane encounter power that causes the same effect. I can buy my character trembles at a dragon, but at Dirk the Mighty when he sneers once per encounter? Not so much. And it certainly isn't the same as grunting until someone moves two spaces on the board.

 

[TwoSix]

Absolutely! And when I'm running Sorceror, it'd be great to delve into!

but I don't want to play it.

Was I making you? And were your preferences ever in doubt? What are we even arguing about?

 

[TwoSix]

I think that mechanics like the fighter's mark (-2 and a free attack unless...) or the compels in FATE (here's a fate point if you do...) are superior to mechanics like CaGi for this type of thing. With these types of mechanics choice is always on the table, but pressure or influence is created by the mechanics to try and push you towards a particular decision.

Valid point. I prefer them as well. Which is why CaGI is one power out of thousands and doesn't have to be chosen.

 

[Nagol]

I think that mechanics like the fighter's mark (-2 and a free attack unless...) or the compels in FATE (here's a fate point if you do...) are superior to mechanics like CaGi for this type of thing. With these types of mechanics choice is always on the table, but pressure or influence is created by the mechanics to try and push you towards a particular decision.

I don't even mind systems with mechanistic systems to determine outcomes like morale tables, vice/virtue tests, and the like. At that point the game system is saying no one is immune to temptation, roll to determine its effect on you.

There is still an external stimuli that can be identified at the table attempting to influence the character.

At that point, (in "good" systems) character design informs how the character will perform generally to that stimulus.

 

[Imaro]

Valid point. I prefer them as well. Which is why CaGI is one power out of thousands and doesn't have to be chosen.

But you also can't stop someone from choosing it if they want to.

 

[Nagol]

Was I making you? And were your preferences ever in doubt? What are we even arguing about?

I thought we were in agreement?

I was just noting it's only a value if its an opportunity the player would want to pursue. Otherwise I have an opprtnuity for a few acres of swampland in Florida for you!

 

[TwoSix]

But you also can't stop someone from choosing it if they want to.

Where's that Viking hat when you need it?