D&D 5E Can I use a Bonus Action Spell and a Wand in the same Turn?

[FormerlyHemlock]

The RAW might be not so clear but I have the strong feeling that the RAI is that you should almost never be able to cast 2 non-cantrip spells in the same round.

We know there's one exception with Action Surge, but it's only ever max 2/day and it requires to be a multiclassed character.

Maximum action surges is 46/day. But realistically for a Fighter 2/Wizard X, probably 3 or 4 times per day, tops.

 

[Celtavian]

Hmm. I'd like to see a citation for the action being the same, because non-casters can use a wand, and don't have to provide material components or verbal components or somatic components. It doesn't look at all like the action-of-casting, even though it produces the same result.

It's already been clarified by Crawford. You can find it yourself or run it as you wish. Crawford made it clear that all the rules of spellcasting apply to items unless the item specifies otherwise including concentration, use of the Cast a Spell action, and no bonus action spells other than cantrips. The wand of fireballs specifically states in the DMG that you "cast a fireball." If you want to run it some other way, have at it. I'm merely advising the OP on the rules in the DMG and the clarification by Crawford.

 

[Pvt. Winslow]

Well, designer comments notwithstanding, I'd probably allow it, even if it ended up not being RAW. Wands are something that the DM has to add to the campaign world in the first place, so if I had a problem with that combo, I would just limit or remove wands. Considering wands have limited charges I wouldn't have to worry about them using that combo all day, and I rub my hands at the idea of letting my NPCs use the same trick themselves.

Plus, I feel like it helps the Thief subclass ability add on for Cunning Action if you count it as a Use an Item action, that way they can use wands and scrolls and whatnot as a Cunning Action. Which is a pretty neat trick.

 

[seebs]

It's already been clarified by Crawford. You can find it yourself or run it as you wish. Crawford made it clear that all the rules of spellcasting apply to items unless the item specifies otherwise including concentration, use of the Cast a Spell action, and no bonus action spells other than cantrips. The wand of fireballs specifically states in the DMG that you "cast a fireball." If you want to run it some other way, have at it. I'm merely advising the OP on the rules in the DMG and the clarification by Crawford.

I haven't seen that clarification. Hmm. Looking, the slot and component stuff are stated on page 141; "the spell is cast at the lowest possible spell level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, and requires no components, unless the item's description says otherwise". So I guess I'm willing to buy that interpretation. They do contrast with the way that potions bypass casting to merely confer a spell's effects.

So, for a contrasting case, look at the brazier of commanding fire elementals, which lets you "use an action to speak the brazier's command word and summon a fire elemental, as if you had cast the conjure elemental spell." That clearly is NOT using the cast-a-spell action, I think.

That said, now I'm curious about wording. Look at the cape of the mountebank. "While wearing it, you can use it to cast the dimension door spell as an action." Why does it need to specify "as an action" here? Also, I note that some wands specify a fixed save DC, while staves usually use the wielder's proficiency and casting ability. Hmm.

Okay, that brings us to a lovely hypothetical. So, say you have a wand of wonder. You invoke it. Some but not all of its powers are "you cast...", and the wording clearly distinguishes between "if the effect causes you to cast a spell from the wand" and the non-spell-casting versions. So. You have invoked the wand. You roll on the table. At this point, if you got a "you cast..." effect, you cannot use a bonus action to cast a spell with a one-bonus-action casting time. But if you didn't, you can.

So what happens if you cast a bonus-action spell, then attempt to invoke the wand of wonder? It's not known until you roll on the table whether or not it will be the "cast a spell" action. If it's not, you should be fine. If it is, what happens? Nothing? The spell fizzles?

 

[Thyrwyn]

It's Schroedinger's Wand...

 

[slaughterj]

Well, designer comments notwithstanding, I'd probably allow it, even if it ended up not being RAW. Wands are something that the DM has to add to the campaign world in the first place, so if I had a problem with that combo, I would just limit or remove wands. Considering wands have limited charges I wouldn't have to worry about them using that combo all day, and I rub my hands at the idea of letting my NPCs use the same trick themselves.

Plus, I feel like it helps the Thief subclass ability add on for Cunning Action if you count it as a Use an Item action, that way they can use wands and scrolls and whatnot as a Cunning Action. Which is a pretty neat trick.

IIRC, the DMG explicitly clarifies that Cunning Action can't be used to activate magic items as they are not activated by the Use an Item action (maybe some exceptions, have to check the book).

 

[Pvt. Winslow]

IIRC, the DMG explicitly clarifies that Cunning Action can't be used to activate magic items as they are not activated by the Use an Item action (maybe some exceptions, have to check the book).

Really? I definitely missed that. Hm. I guess out if the box, Arcane Trickster seems like the best subclass now, not sure the others have abilities that are helpful enough.

 

[HarrisonF]

Doing a bit of thread necromancy. There are weird rulings no matter which way you go with this, so I have been unsatisfied with it in our game.

If you say that casting a spell from a wand or a scroll is the same as casting it directly, can you then use things like metamagic on it? Or if you have the Elemental Adept feat, does it apply to it? Or does Rod of the Pact Keeper influence the spell DC?

If you say that it isn't the same as casting a spell directly, then you should be able to use a bonus action spell and then use a wand/scroll which seems unintended.

How have other people been playing it?

 

[Oofta]

Doing a bit of thread necromancy. There are weird rulings no matter which way you go with this, so I have been unsatisfied with it in our game.

If you say that casting a spell from a wand or a scroll is the same as casting it directly, can you then use things like metamagic on it? Or if you have the Elemental Adept feat, does it apply to it? Or does Rod of the Pact Keeper influence the spell DC?

If you say that it isn't the same as casting a spell directly, then you should be able to use a bonus action spell and then use a wand/scroll which seems unintended.

How have other people been playing it?

Most wands simply allow a caster to cast spells without using their spell allocation. Anything that would affect a spell they cast normally affects the spell cast from the wand.

I rule that wands effectively just add extra spell slots that can only be used to cast specific spells.

No need to over complicate things.

 

[HarrisonF]

Most wands simply allow a caster to cast spells without using their spell allocation. Anything that would affect a spell they cast normally affects the spell cast from the wand.

I rule that wands effectively just add extra spell slots that can only be used to cast specific spells.

No need to over complicate things.

Do you use the rules that have a set DC associated with the Wand? For example, Wand of Fireballs is fixed as a DC 15 save which makes it seem like the Wand is somehow involved in the casting more.