Can the First Aid Skill "Use Second Wind" be used on unconscious characters?

[CapnZapp]

You take an extended rest.

Being "screwed" or forcing people at maximum hit points to take extended rests just to avoid being screwed, well, let's just say that's not my kind of fun.

This needs to be house-ruled. Easily 4E's least welcome rule-change (that normal Healing Potions can't be used when they're needed the most).

Thanks for your replies.

 

[Nail]

In many cases, unless you're literally about to drop, you'd be better off spending it pounding the enemy some more, because the sooner you drop them, the less damage they're going to inflict upon you and your allies.

Absolutely.

..and it's a hard lesson to take to heart. I *hate* to see fellow PCs go down, even though I know they're still relatively safe from death. (Of course, if you've got a trigger-happy wizard in your party, the downed PC is likely one mis-placed Scorching Burst away from negative H.S. death.)

 

[chitzk0i]

Being "screwed" or forcing people at maximum hit points to take extended rests just to avoid being screwed, well, let's just say that's not my kind of fun.

This needs to be house-ruled. Easily 4E's least welcome rule-change (that normal Healing Potions can't be used when they're needed the most).

This just means that hit points are not the only measure of long you can fight. If somebody only has one or two healing surges, they're physically fine and ready to fight, but if they get hit very much they won't be able to bounce back. It's just like in 3e if the cleric heals everybody up and then says, "Guys, I've got a cure moderate and three cure lights left." You might be able to take on another fight, but if anybody get really hurt, you'll be out of luck.

If you don't like that, then try to get your group to push forward. If everybody works together and plays it safe, maybe you could take on another encounter. On the other hand, does the party have to push balls to the walls to use every bit of resources every adventuring day?

 

[Pbartender]

Being "screwed" or forcing people at maximum hit points to take extended rests just to avoid being screwed, well, let's just say that's not my kind of fun.

As opposed to being "screwed" or forcing people at maximum hit points to take 8 hour rests just to avoid being screwed by running out of healing spells?

 

[MarkB]

Being "screwed" or forcing people at maximum hit points to take extended rests just to avoid being screwed, well, let's just say that's not my kind of fun.

This needs to be house-ruled. Easily 4E's least welcome rule-change (that normal Healing Potions can't be used when they're needed the most).

Thanks for your replies.

Bear in mind that, under 4e rules, "maximum hit points" does not, on its own, mean "uninjured". A more accurate picture of a 4e character's state of health is that the number of injuries he's suffering is represented primarily by how many healing surges he has left, whilst his hit points represent only the number of untreated injuries he is currently suffering.

Second Winds and healing spells are all simply forms of first aid. They patch up your wounds and get you back on your feet for the next fight. If you want to actually treat those injuries properly, you need the sort of dedicated recovery and medical attention that can only be administered as part of an extended rest.

Basically, it's just a matter of dropping another 3rd-edition preconception. Once you let go of the concept that "maximum hitpoints" = "uninjured", the system makes a lot more sense.

 

[Starglim]

This needs to be house-ruled. Easily 4E's least welcome rule-change (that normal Healing Potions can't be used when they're needed the most).

4e healing potions are rubbish, but using them when out of healing surges isn't the problem. I'm more concerned that a potion of healing is worse at 1st level than a healing word and rapidly falls further behind. It's not hard to see a fix that would improve both issues, though - something like "You regain 4 hit points and you may spend a healing surge".

 

[DracoSuave]

A potion isn't supposed to be a replacement for Healing Word. It's your emergency kit, your thing of last resort, for when other methods of non-standard action healing have evaded you. Why -would- it be better than Second Wind?

 

[Shroomy]

4e healing potions are rubbish, but using them when out of healing surges isn't the problem. I'm more concerned that a potion of healing is worse at 1st level than a healing word and rapidly falls further behind. It's not hard to see a fix that would improve both issues, though - something like "You regain 4 hit points and you may spend a healing surge".

Our party uses healing potions quite liberally, even with two leaders in the party. Generally, we try to conserve our better healing powers and second wind for when we are bloodied or when someone is in dire straits, so we use the potions to blunt attacks or in expectation of taking damage. For example, last night, I was down probably 15 hit points and I was about to get rocked by some giant spiders, so I downed a potion with my minor action in expectation of the attack (which did come).

 

[Starglim]

edit: forked

 

[RichGreen]

dying PCs, second wind & stabilization

Hi,

Sorry if I'm being dim here, but is there any need to stabliise a dying character first before triggering their second wind?

It doesn't look like there is, which means the stabilise the dying action (First Aid p.185) is only necessary if the dying PC doesn't have a second wind left, correct? The PC is still unconscious but is no longer dying and can be brought back to 1hp even if he has no surges left when his second wind reboots during a short rest.

Thanks


Richard