Can you Quickdraw in the middle of an Attack?

[Camarath]

No... great cleave just improves cleave, to multiple times per round.

But Great Cleave does not actually say that it improves the Cleave feat. It states that it "works like Cleave, except that there is no limit to the number of times you can use it per round".

Great cleave kicks in after the initial cleave attack kills.

This is also not what the feat actually says.

 

[Caliban]

But Great Cleave does not actually say that it improves the Cleave feat. It states that it "works like Cleave, except that there is no limit to the number of times you can use it per round".
This is also not what the feat actually says.

Then why does it have Cleave as a prerequisite? It's important to use the spirit of the rules to interpret the letter of the rules.

Do you honestly think that it is intended that Great Cleave give you two extra attacks on the first foe you drop?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Do you honestly think that it is intended that Great Cleave give you two extra attacks on the first foe you drop?

No.

Both feats do indeed provide an extra attack... however, both of those extra attacks are required to be immediate. Whichever one you take first, the other is no longer an immediate extra attack (it's an extra attack after another extra attack), so you're no longer allowed to take it.

-Hyp.

 

[green slime]

Lots of free actions being squeezed in there...

1) Attack enemy with Great Axe, killing him. (1st iterrative attack)
2) *removed*
3) Great Cleave into adjacent_enemy_001 with Great Axe (killing him)
4) Great Cleave into a adjacent_enemy_002
5) Free Action drop Great Axe
6) Free Action Quickdraw Longsword,
6b) Free Action Quickdraw Shortsword
7) Attack adjacent_enemy_002 with Longsword (2nd iterattive attack)
8) Attack adjacent_enemy_002 with Shortsword (1st off-hand attack), killing enemy
9) Free Action drop Longsword
10) Free Action Quickdraw Dagger
11) Throw dagger via Rapid Shot at a new_enemy_001

Now, I wouldn't quite allow all this in my game; I'm strict on free actions, because they end up allowing all sorts of strangeness if you get too permisive with them.

Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) and exchange the Short Sword for a dagger, and you remove a large number of free actions...

Another comment; action 7 and 8 are out of sequence.

from the SRD:
If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest.

Your second iterative attack is unlikely to have a higher bonus than your 1st off-hand attack (assuming you have TWF).

The whole sequence gets messy, but if you are going to allow this many free actions in your game, yes it is OK. Of course I'd still apply the TWF penalty AND the rapid shot penalty AND any attack penalty for power attack (without the added bonus to damage) to the thrown dagger.

I believe the "when fighting this way" in TWF refers to the fact, that, just because you are holding a sword in your off-hand, you suffer no penalties to your attacks, unless you decide to use it. As the order in which you commit to your attacks is important (from highest attack bonus to lowest), you are at most just avoiding the TWF penalty to your first attack. I doubt the legality of this move. I'm also a bit reserved about attaching a rapid shot at the end of the attack sequence:

Rapid shot excerpt from the SRD:
You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a –2 penalty.

Sort of implies that you had to declare your intent to use rapid shot already at the beginning of the attack sequence, directly after you say: "I use a full-attack action,...".

I'd assume that the same declaration of intent regarding quick-drawing off-hand weapon should apply as well: otherwise you are going to have all TWF declaring their intent to use their off-hand AFTER the first attack, which is clearly not meant to be the case.

 

[Sejs]

Here's a question - are you taking all the penalties for your (potential) two weapon fighting and rapid shotting on all your attacks, like you'd normally have to if quick draw and the like wern't involved in the situation?

And if so, how are you calculating in that for part of the round, your off-hand is occupied on a non-light weapon (it's involved in the operation of the greataxe)? Does the highest penalty just apply for the whole round, or do you try to work it out on a by-case basis? How does that work then when you would have to retroactivally apply the penalties to attacks that came before the penalty changed?



Personally, I would allow the stuff with the greataxe, dropping the greataxe, quickdrawing the two swords, and attacking with the longsword, but I wouldn't allow any two weapon fighting, or rapid shotting to be initiated mid-action.

 

[Coredump]

Actions 7 and 8 are fine.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.

Is the complete quote. The secondary attack does not fall under the 'highest to lowest' restriction. I believe some say you have to do all of one hand, and then all of the other hand, but I do not know what they base that on.



As for the actual question asked...
Dropping a weapon is a free action, drawing a weapon is a free action (with QD). There is no pre-determined limit to the number of free actions you can take; it is solely up to your DM to determine if that is a reasonable number of free actions.
Personally, I am not sure if I would allow the last dagger QD. Besides, pretty soon, all of your weapons will be on the floor.

 

[mikebr99]

Personally, I am not sure if I would allow the last dagger QD. Besides, pretty soon, all of your weapons will be on the floor.

Heh... that's why you should allow it... just for the look on his face once he realizes what he has done.


Mike

 

[Camarath]

Then why does it have Cleave as a prerequisite? It's important to use the spirit of the rules to interpret the letter of the rules.

Do you honestly think that it is intended that Great Cleave give you two extra attacks on the first foe you drop?

Let me quote myself to answer your question.

RigaMortus I do not think you are meant to gain an additional Cleave attack and an additional Great Cleave attack from the first foe you kill. I know that Great Cleave states that it "This feat works like Cleave" and does not say it replaces Cleave so technically one would gain two attacks but I do not think that is what the writers meant.

 

[Camarath]

Both feats do indeed provide an extra attack... however, both of those extra attacks are required to be immediate. Whichever one you take first, the other is no longer an immediate extra attack (it's an extra attack after another extra attack), so you're no longer allowed to take it.

Why can't you make them simultaneously?

 

[Sejs]

....?


How would that work, exactly?

You swing at a guy on your left and a guy on your right in the same instant with the same weapon? That's basically being in two places at the same time - doesn't work. As soon as you take one action, the other is negated because it's no longer immediate. It becomes subsequent.