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D&D 5E Can you share your experience with a featless/multiclassless game?


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Azzy

KMF DM
Especially considering the Trident has the SAME stats as the Simple Weapon Spear. It's heavier and more expensive but it has the same damage and special attributes. By all account it didn't need to exist as a separate game unit and just be some a spear could just... ya know, BE!
I think they only exist in 5e because of the iconic magic item, the trident of fish command.
 

Azzy

KMF DM
I rarely see SS or GWM, Sentinel is used by rogues more than anyone else to get a second SA every once in a while...Don't think I've ever seen PAM on any character in my main group.

My experience, and comments I've seen from the design team bck this up, is that most players are not optimizers.
I haven't seem GWF or PAM at all. I do have a character with SS, but there aren't a whole lot of feat choices for a dedicated archer.
 




jsaving

Adventurer
If you as a DM are going to judge your players because of your perception that people only multiclass for reasons you deem illegitimate, then you should absolutely not allow multiclassing in your game.

However, I would push back a little bit on the sentiment that "3e/5e multiclassing" is unbalanced, or even that "3e/5e multiclassing" is a sensible way to talk about the issue. 5e multiclassing may be "3e-style" in the sense that you can pick whatever class you want when leveling up, but the mechanical gains from multiclassing are a lot lower in 5e than they were in 3e. Which is a good thing in my opinion, as it makes multiclassing a sometimes-entertaining option rather than something every powergamer feels obliged to do.
 

Minigiant

Legend
I've seen it so many times.

Some dude rocks up to the table with a Sorlock and then begs for a do-over once 5th level comes around and the real casters start tossing out the big boy spells.

Sorlocks, old school Stab Fighters, and Hexladins ae what my friends call video game PCs. PCs who are usually only fun when playing a whole party in a video game or if you start the complain at the midlevels. At the table,they get abandoned.
 
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Sorlocks, old school Stab Fighters, and Hexladins ae what my friends call video game PCs. PCs who are usually only fun when playing a whole party in a video game or ofyou start the complain at the midlevels. At the table,they get abandoned.
Being 2 levels behind a feat is bad (even if its just +1 to saves/ hit etc). Being 2 levels behind the exponential leaps in power at 5th level (revivify, fireball, fly, spirit guardians, bardic inspiration on a short rest, extra attack, stunning fist, uncanny dodge) and again at 11th level (improved divine smite, arcanum, extra attack [2]) is really bad. Being 2 levels behind your next highest level spell level is really really bad.

Not a sacrifice I would make for a better at will cantrip that's for sure.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Being 2 levels behind a feat is bad (even if its just +1 to saves/ hit etc). Being 2 levels behind the exponential leaps in power at 5th level (revivify, fireball, fly, spirit guardians, bardic inspiration on a short rest, extra attack, stunning fist, uncanny dodge) and again at 11th level (improved divine smite, arcanum, extra attack [2]) is really bad. Being 2 levels behind your next highest level spell level is really really bad.

Not a sacrifice I would make for a better at will cantrip that's for sure.

Exactly. 5e uses a tier system. When you hit a new tier, your power and flexibility skyrockets. The second tier starts at level 5. Third at level 11. MCing slows this down by 1-3 levels. Since most campaigns barely get to third tier, a MC character usually never gets their 3rd tier power boost. And they only getting a short time with the 2nd if they don't single class to level 5 first. Enter disappointment.

The result is Multiclassing only being good for "weaker classes" post level 5 or 6as the campaign usually ends before you feel punished for it.
 

Undrave

Hero
Exactly. 5e uses a tier system. When you hit a new tier, your power and flexibility skyrockets. The second tier starts at level 5. Third at level 11. MCing slows this down by 1-3 levels. Since most campaigns barely get to third tier, a MC character usually never gets their 3rd tier power boost. And they only getting a short time with the 2nd if they don't single class to level 5 first. Enter disappointment.

The result is Multiclassing only being good for "weaker classes" post level 5 or 6as the campaign usually ends before you feel punished for it.
In my Dwarf game the Barbarian only Mcd into Fighter once he got his second attack. There wasn't anything intresting him about the rest of the class after that point. I don't think we'lleven reach a high enough level that he could get his Fighter subclass for long.

'course, the game's been on hold all pendemic so who knows if we'll even start it again?
 

In my Dwarf game the Barbarian only Mcd into Fighter once he got his second attack. There wasn't anything intresting him about the rest of the class after that point. I don't think we'lleven reach a high enough level that he could get his Fighter subclass for long.

'course, the game's been on hold all pendemic so who knows if we'll even start it again?

There is a lot of good stuff in Barb after 5th. Heck at 6th level you can rage 4 times per day, which is good enough for 2/3 of most encounters in an adventuring day.

Though 3 levels of Champion fighter is full of goodies for a Barbarian (and thematically appropriate too).
 

Undrave

Hero
There is a lot of good stuff in Barb after 5th. Heck at 6th level you can rage 4 times per day, which is good enough for 2/3 of most encounters in an adventuring day.

Though 3 levels of Champion fighter is full of goodies for a Barbarian (and thematically appropriate too).
Considering our main source of healing is a Paladin, I think he felt the Second Wind would make him more durable (and he's a Bear Totem Barb to boo). And we weren't doing that many encounters per day.
 


Minigiant

Legend
In my Dwarf game the Barbarian only Mcd into Fighter once he got his second attack. There wasn't anything intresting him about the rest of the class after that point. I don't think we'lleven reach a high enough level that he could get his Fighter subclass for long.

'course, the game's been on hold all pendemic so who knows if we'll even start it again?

Barb is one of those "weaker classes" that can benefite a lot from multiclassing after level 5 or 6 once you get Extra Attack.

5eMCing is like 3eMCing for warriors. That second attack is the most important thing in the average campaign and delaying it requires a major bonus.
 


I've seen it so many times.

Some dude rocks up to the table with a Sorlock and then begs for a do-over once 5th level comes around and the real casters start tossing out the big boy spells.
I beg for do-overs when my Lore Bard reaches 10th level. Silly Magical Secrets ruling. :cry:
 


ECMO3

Adventurer
If you as a DM are going to judge your players because of your perception that people only multiclass for reasons you deem illegitimate, then you should absolutely not allow multiclassing in your game.

However, I would push back a little bit on the sentiment that "3e/5e multiclassing" is unbalanced, or even that "3e/5e multiclassing" is a sensible way to talk about the issue. 5e multiclassing may be "3e-style" in the sense that you can pick whatever class you want when leveling up, but the mechanical gains from multiclassing are a lot lower in 5e than they were in 3e. Which is a good thing in my opinion, as it makes multiclassing a sometimes-entertaining option rather than something every powergamer feels obliged to do.
You can't pick whatever class you want, you need a 13 in one or more stats
 

ECMO3

Adventurer
I've had a one or two sorlocks in my games, but they've all asked to retcon the PC when played next to a single class caster.

When the Wizard is getting access to Fireball, Counterspell, Fly, Haste and Hypnotic Pattern, and you're still running around pew pewing with EB's, and stuck with a few 2nds, it gets really sucky, fast.
I have not played a multiclass sorcerer, but I have played a lot of multiclass wizards, both cleric-wizards and arcane trickster-wizards and I never felt left out. You still get the slots, you just have to pick spells that upcast well.` Sure they don't have as powerful spells, but they have other things going for them that a straight wizard doesn't.
 

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