Changeover Poll

[Jasperak]

I am really surprised at these poll results and somewhat surprised at the results at RPGnet. I wonder how many of the respondents bought the books but answered tried or didn't try? WOTC made such a big deal about sales of the books compared to earlier editions, that I wonder if those books are just sitting on shelves.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There is at least a partial answer here on ENWorld.

Someone else on this site started a thread about who preordered 4Ed etc., and I was one of many who responded in the affirmative, and that I wasn't planning on ever running a game.

As I recall, it wasn't a long thread, though. Whether that means that there isn't a huge portion of the community that bought 4Ed and gave up on it or if there was just so much going on that the thread got lost or whatever is unclear.

 

[Harlekin]

The 31% who choose Option 6, although they show their open-mindedness,

Edena_of_Neith

I don't think many of these votes actually reflect much open-mindedness. This thread suggests that quite a few went into a playtest of 4th edition expecting to dislike the game. And their prediction came true. Hence these players "went back to older editions" although they had never left.

The interesting question would be, how many people played 4th edition long enough to have a well founded opinion (120h to overcome your biases and preconceptions, as we learned in an other thread) and went back to older editions? I'm sure there are some, but I doubt the numbers are like the ones we are getting here.

 

[Harlekin]

I am really surprised at these poll results and somewhat surprised at the results at RPGnet. I wonder how many of the respondents bought the books but answered tried or didn't try? WOTC made such a big deal about sales of the books compared to earlier editions, that I wonder if those books are just sitting on shelves.

That would of course assume that this poll is in any way representative for the changeover rates among the gamer population at large. However, as ENworld members are clearly not representative for the gamer population at large, this seems unlikely.

More likely, as this site started out as a 3rd edition discovery site, gamers on this site have a particularly strong financial and emotional investment in 3rd edition.

 

[Jasperak]

I don't think many of these votes actually reflect much open-mindedness. This thread suggests that quite a few went into a playtest of 4th edition expecting to dislike the game. And their prediction came true. Hence these players "went back to older editions" although they had never left.

The interesting question would be, how many people played 4th edition long enough to have a well founded opinion (120h to overcome your biases and preconceptions, as we learned in an other thread) and went back to older editions? I'm sure there are some, but I doubt the numbers are like the ones we are getting here.

Wow, 120 hours? At the current rate of play, that would mean I would have to "test drive" the game for 10 months or so. I have been playing for 20+ years. I think after four or so sessions I can get a feel for what the game is going to be like especially after reading through the PH. Yeah, by the end of August I realized 4e isn't for me.

As for your other post about ENWorld not being representative of the gamer population as a whole, my comments and questions are meant to deal primarily with the respondents to the poll. I am not looking at this or other polls for some sort of vindication of my feelings about 4e and D&D in general. This is an amusing little poll that may be a statistically viable exercise that shows some of my fellow ENWorlder's gaming habits.

This poll does partially explain why I spend far more time here than over at RPGnet though.

 

[Harlekin]

Wow, 120 hours? At the current rate of play, that would mean I would have to "test drive" the game for 10 months or so. I have been playing for 20+ years. I think after four or so sessions I can get a feel for what the game is going to be like especially after reading through the PH. Yeah, by the end of August I realized 4e isn't for me.

As for your other post about ENWorld not being representative of the gamer population as a whole, my comments and questions are meant to deal primarily with the respondents to the poll. I am not looking at this or other polls for some sort of vindication of my feelings about 4e and D&D in general. This is an amusing little poll that may be a statistically viable exercise that shows some of my fellow ENWorlder's gaming habits.

This poll does partially explain why I spend far more time here than over at RPGnet though.

I agree that if you are playing a game you like,there is no need in investing 120h into a game that you may not like especially if you are initially set against it. You probably will never have a well founded opinion of the new game but if you have all you need, who cares?

I was mostly trying to address your puzzlement how 4th could sell so well if en world had such a negative opinion of it. If the poll results shown here are not representative then such a contradiction is easily explained.

Btw, I think the biggest difference between ENworld and rpg.net is that rpgnetter tend to play more role playing systems, hence they have less of an emotional investment in any one system. Furthermore, they are probably also more open to radical changes in a game.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The interesting question would be, how many people played 4th edition long enough to have a well founded opinion (120h to overcome your biases and preconceptions, as we learned in an other thread) and went back to older editions?

That's an awfully long time to beat your head against a wall trying to have fun. There are games I love that I haven't played 120 hours of, so I'm thinking that's a bit long.

I'll stand by my opinion- I pre-ordered 4Ed, and it disappointed me. I have enough experience in the hobby to know what I do and don't like in a game- I don't need to frustrate myself for hours on end to figure that out.

 

[Jasperak]

I agree that if you are playing a game you like,there is no need in investing 120h into a game that you may not like especially if you are initially set against it. You probably will never have a well founded opinion of the new game but if you have all you need, who cares?

That's the rub for me though. I was not set against it originally. I was worn out from the weight of 3e and waiting for something new and different. I had originally thought to move to C&C or create a new 1e/BECMI hybrid, but I figured I would wait until 4e came out. Once it did though it failed at what I was looking for.

After the months of edition war BS I've realized I much prefer rules light systems that don't get in the way of role-playing. With that said I am psyched to try out Warhammer Fantasy Role-playing Game if only because I want to get back to my gaming roots. I miss my mega-dungeons and the thrill of exploration. I miss the thrill of not knowing if my characters will be able to survive a random encounter. All of this expectation of magic and game balance soured me first on 3e but nauseated me on 4e.

So no, I didn't go into 4e hating it. I came out hating it because it took everything I hated about 3e and amplified it. Now granted it did do somethings that I like (multiclassing) but it also gave me cards to tap during combat.

I was mostly trying to address your puzzlement how 4th could sell so well if en world had such a negative opinion of it. If the poll results shown here are not representative then such a contradiction is easily explained.

When the PHB2 comes out shortly we will have a better idea of the amount of people playing 4e. It sounds like a fair portion of people here and elsewhere bought the core set very cheap from online-distributors. I would like to know how many of those books are in use or collecting dust on the shelves. I would also like to see how well the newer books sell at more normal prices.

I guess my previous post questioned how representative is ENWorld of the gaming community at large and by extension where do I fit in with the gaming community? This with the further question of, "Am I part of a dying breed or will there be enough like-minded people left behind like me?"

 

[Harlekin]

That's an awfully long time to beat your head against a wall trying to have fun. There are games I love that I haven't played 120 hours of, so I'm thinking that's a bit long.

I agree. After all, your life does not depend on you having an unbiased opinion of any game. And you already have a game that you are happy with.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I agree. After all, your life does not depend on you having an unbiased opinion of any game. And you already have a game that you are happy with.

Rein in your snark- bias has nothing to do with it. 4Ed got the same shake as any other system I've purchased. Actually, even better- I don't usually purchase a game before checking out its mechanics and fluff.

And in 30+ years of gaming (as I've said, covering many systems & doing actual playtests), 4Ed stands as one of only 2 game revisions of a game I enjoyed that I didn't like.

I preordered it. I read some of the prerelease leaks. I read the game when it finally got into my hands. While I found some things in the game to be meritorious, as a whole, it had eliminated too many elements of previous editions I enjoyed- things I felt helped set D&D apart from other FRPGs- while having too many new elements that I disliked.

In fact, it was such a different game that the designers themselves suggested that you start new campaigns rather than try to convert extant ones, which for someone like myself was another strike against it.

I handed it off to others in my main game group, most of whom are avid computer gamers, a few of whom are professional computer game designers. THEIR main complaint (not mine) was that it introduced certain aspects of computer games that they had no wish to experience in a tabletop RPG.

I then shelved it.