Changeover Poll

[Edena_of_Neith]

I suspect that the time has come to talk about pirates as they relate to the RPGA and one 164th level cleric.

(chuckles)

There is no Sea of Fallen Stars. They nuked it, remember, for 4E?

And it's 161st level. 161st level! : D

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Dragon magazine and Dungeon magazine are still there. In fact, they are better than they have been for years. Sure, the format may not appeal to you, but that's fairly irrelevant. They are still there!

Also, what do you base this "real chance that D&D will be gone" on? Do you have insider information we do not have? Do you have an education and some real statistics that enables you to make such a claim?

Because, and you may not realize this, D&D will never be gone. That's why people still play OD&D, 1e, 2e, 3.x aside from 4e. Even if Hasbro locked D&D far and away, we would still have our books! That's right, no ninjas will come and steal your books.

The OGL and general weak laws regarding copyright and games would ensure that just about anything for D&D could still be produced by those willing, because, let's face it. 5 million people just won't stop loving and playing D&D because Hasbro decides that it's not worth it anymore. So if they close shop, you can be sure that others will take over.

Please pardon me. Upset by the other affair, I said things that are incorrect.

Yes, we still have Dragon and Dungeon Magazine.
I do wish, that they remained in print form. Just me. But we *do* still have the magazines.

I have no Insider Information. It is true that everyone I once knew has quit the Hobby, but that is irrelevant. I hope others are joining in. Things change, no?
What I fear, was that Hasbro would simply shelve the copyrights to D&D, as they did for the print versions of Dragon, Dungeon, and some of the settings. I don't want to see that happen.

Yes, *we* still have our books. We can maintain the Hobby as a Cottage Industry forever, basically.
I want us to continue to be a Mainstream Hobby. I want D&D to remain a universally known name. To be honored and the inspiration for other games, for conventions, for a lot of things that have happened previously, and hopefully will still go on happening. Let's keep D&D a Household Name.

*I like your post.* This is the kind of stubborn optimism, and stubborn will to continue, that this Hobby needs. If we have a whole bunch of people like you, D&D really WILL stick around for the indefinite future.
Cheers, sir.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Quality or not (I guess that's pretty subjective, so let's agree to disagree), they still exist. Will you agree on that at least? If you do, then saying that they no longer exist is flat out wrong (which was what I was commenting on).

Cheers

Yes, they still exist. I agree with what you are saying. You are quite right.
I sincerely hope they will return as print magazines. Just me.
(fond sigh) Old Timer, indeed. That's me ...

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I believe it means an increased interest in your poll.

I didn't vote the first time.

I can hope that means increased interest in the game, can't I?
Be it 4E or 3E or Pathfinder or 2E or 1E or OD&D or Hackmaster or C&C, or Online Magazines, or whatever, if more people are interested, more power to them. More power to the game.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I'll first point out that I didn't say this represented all players. I said that the other poll was being used as a counter-point and I consider that very telling. The "good news" poll is still pretty bad news.

But yes, in my opinion (and it is just that, my opinion) it has failed to do so.

I think wotc could have done better by showing more respect for the conventions that had worked well for the game in the past and showing more respect for the level of complexity that the bulk of gamers embrace and find rewarding. If you woudl like more detail on these items, I'd refer you to hundreds, if not thousands, of other threads over the past 18 months. It isn't like the issues are a secret.

I will admit, I miss the gaming conventions. Especially conventions like AndCon, Three Rivers, and local conventions like CubiCon.
I remember when MichiCon had hundreds of D&D games. They have none now, neither RPGA nor home games.

(sighs)

Same with a lot of really great FLGSs. Like the Gamer's Inn, Hobby House, or the Gaming Underground. Cool places.
I liked the WOTC Stores, while they lasted.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Edena, are you paying attention? Now that is humor.

Well struck, Sir Wilder. Well struck.

WP

Yes. I've heard of the show (although when I hear Knight Rider, I think of the Night Rider, and thus Mad Max, and ...)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Thanks for the hyperbole, but it really only proves like nothing. Being made of dead tree is NOT the defining characteristic of Dragon or Dungeon.

Let's hope not. A lot of treants and druids would take issue with us.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

There is no successful changeover number. The successful release is that more people buy the new books than were buying the old. This can be done even with 100% loss of old players if they get 101% back in new players.

Successful Changeover, in my book, is that more people than ever are interested in the Hobby (in ANY format, including Online Formats ... everything seems to be heading to Cyberspace, anymore ...)
If more people are joining in the Hobby, that's good enough for me.

I look at the competition, and it is staggering, and it relies on technologies that did not exist when D&D first came into being in the 60s.
D&D has a tough row to hoe, as I've said before.
But you can't kill the spirit of roleplaying, so I - and I've said this before - do believe some form of our Hobby is going to stick around indefinitely.

 

[DaveMage]

Bingo - assuming the new players buy the books at a rate equal to or greater than the previous customer base. (In other words, the newbies better have a couple DaveMage types in their group. )

I do wonder how many collector-types have gotten off the train with 4E. I know some are still there (e.g., Catsclaw227), but I've also seen a few others that have stopped buying as well.

For the record, though, had they kept all of the traditional D&D fluff, it would have been a lot harder to resist the edition change. (And extending the OGL to 4E and getting all the publishers on board would have been a huge temptation for me as well.) I was just looking at my awesome 2E Volo's guides the other day, and realizing that in 3E, they were all still pretty much usable as is. (This was important to me at the time of the 2E/3E switch.) With 4e? Forget it. Most of the people (and stories) in those guides would be dead in the new timeline.

Also, with the movement towards books with bigger print and less detail (especially in books like the Draconomicon and Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide), the comparitive value still isn't there for me. When I say I buy into an edition, I really buy into an edition. So for me, the content amount per book matters. I like 'em packed with info.

But it's OK. When I win the 300M Powerball(tm) jackpot, I'll buy D&D and make the books I want. (And then the few people that actually agree with me will be happy too.)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

We are at 1,100 votes. We have the 1st Changeover Poll beaten by 100 votes.
I think we can make 2,000 votes, personally. Let's try for it. (And show that ENWorld is the great metropolis that I describe it as! : ) )

Here are the current results of the poll, as of 1,100 votes:

Changeover: 33%
No Changeover: 58%
Partial Changeover: 9%
Option 6: 31%

Note: Changeover gained 1%, to 33%, about 200 votes ago, and has maintained this gain since then. Prior to that, Changeover was at 32% for about 500 votes.