Changing the Magical Economy...

[JohnSnow]

Okay, this is something I've been playing with for a while. While I like PCs getting magic items and fat loot, I don't like the degree to which PCs have to be not just some of the world's most power people, but among the richest as well.

While it can be neat to have high-level adventurers be wealthy, haven't we completely abandoned all semblance of reality in a medieval setting with the price of high-level items? Why does a Flying Carpet cost 125,000 gp? The obvious answer is "because it's a 20th-level item and that's what 20th-level items cost." But WHY is a 20th-level item that price? Other than the formula, is there a reason? And, more to the point, can the item price formula be flattened without adversely affecting balance? Personally, I think the answer is yes.

The current formula increases the price of an item by 160 gp each level from 1-5; 800 gp from 6-10; 4000 from 11-15; 20,000 gp from 16-20; 100,000 gp from 21-25; and 500,000 gp from 26-30. For comparison, a sailing ship (something that would cost millions today) runs 10,000 gp. Which means it's between a 9th and a 10th level item. But what if we lower the curve from a fivefold increase to only 3?

If we leave level 1-5 roughly as is, a 5th level item is 1000 gp. If level 6-10 goes up by triple that (500 gp) each level, a 10th-level item is worth 3500 gp. If you then triple it again (to 1500 gp) for the next 5 levels, you're at 11,000 gp by 15th. Tripling again (to 4,500 gp per level) means a flying carpet (at 20th-level) is worth 33,500 gp. Carrying the same formula into the Epic Tier, a 25th-level item is worth 101,000 gp (if you could find one for sale), and a 30th level item is worth 303,500 gp.

Those numbers are still outrageous, but it keeps the prices of items more "real world" right up until the Epic Tier (which is fine). Other than not having to screw around with "astral diamonds" as currency, I think the only real consideration is what happens if you sell an item, or try to recover it's residuum. With this system, you get 33% of its value, rather than 20%. I played with an even shallower curve (doubling the rate increase) every 5 levels, but I think that's too shallow.

So what do you all think? Do any balance concerns exist with this setup? Obviously, there's some finicky math I need to work out.

 

[BobTheNob]

Your observations are correct, and your analysis of the means by which cost increases are calculated are bang on.

I think the teired multiplicative increase (currently 5) is an important one, but the current factor of 5 is quite literally just a number. Yes, it could just as eaily and feaibly work with a factor of 3.

The fact that players get so little money for their loot is attractive to me though. Finding phat loot is a great carrot on a stick for keeping players moving forward, and the gold they have (mixed with sell value) aint quite enough to keep you geared feasibly. Change the factor to 3, and players can equip themselves more easily, since logically the value/5 sell price is based on a 5 factor teir, and you would need to change that to value/3.

As much as I agree with your observations, I do shurg my shoulders. I follow the advised treasure parcel to the letter and I find the party is adequately (not overly) equipped to be able to handle what comes, and at the same time the flow of loot is enough to keep them excited when they get the really coll drop.

I hear your point, but for our game the system prescribed is working, so my personnel inclination would not be to alter it.

All the best to you deriving something you are more comfortable with.

 

[keterys]

In a revised loot system I did, I actually did 1-10 like xp, then had L+10 = x10 cost.

100 (1st)
125
150
175
200
250
300
350
400
500
1000 (11th)
1250
etc

Which I think works fine if you're not as worried about the +2s, since those are really the reason why it multiplies by so much - so that there is a big cost difference between 5th (+1 w/ bells and whistles) and 6th (+2 with nada). 1000 -> 1800gp is a real difference. 1000 to 1080? Not so much of a difference. But heroic -> paragon -> epic tier as a real jump, I like.

Part of me kinda likes the idea of just using a different currency system for magic items. Land, sailboats, whatever cost you gold... but magic items are priceless and in residuum.

Of course, even priceless things are easily priced, sad to say, so it breaks down a little. But for purposes of an RPG, it'd probably work fine.

 

[JohnSnow]

I like your system. You make a fair point on increasing bonuses, but I find myself wondering if things are really that big a deal. I mean, is a +2 magic sword really almost twice as valuable (1800 gp vs. 1000 gp) as a +1 flaming sword? I hardly think so. The same argument could be made about a +3 blade vs. a +2 one I suppose, but I kinda like the tiers as marker points.

I may have to play with this idea a bit...

Part of me kinda likes the idea of just using a different currency system for magic items. Land, sailboats, whatever cost you gold... but magic items are priceless and in residuum.

Of course, even priceless things are easily priced, sad to say, so it breaks down a little. But for purposes of an RPG, it'd probably work fine.

Well, that's another fairly good point. On the other hand, magic items can fairly easily exceed ordinary values. If you can work out a way to keep magic items and coin from being easily "fungible" (that is, swapping one for the other) that pretty well takes care of the biggest flavor issue.

I'm beginning to realize that whatever balance issues might arise are negligible (at least in my home game). Basically, beyond the first few levels, I want PCs either making items or finding them, not buying them in a shop. I'll peel the system assumptions apart and stick them back together.

And I hate "Astral Diamonds" as a currency, so I'm rescoping the economy to get rid of them. That probably means returning to a different currency (like rescoping the silver to gold ratio) but it should be too hard.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll post my revision for comments (and anyone's use) when it's done.

 

[SageofMusic]

I think that the system is reasonable if you remember one thing: not all (if any) of this stuff is available to buy. Take for example the Flying Carpet. Being a lvl 20 item, it is extremely rare. Anyone trying to either buy or make this isn't going to be selling it anytime soon. Therefore, if I had a PC trying to buy a flying carpet, I would tell him simply that either no one has one, or they are unwilling to sell it. Even higher level items are the same way. The only reason they have a price on there is to calculate the residuum that the PC's get from the item.