Characters made only for combat

[Quasqueton]

DocMoriartty, how did this player create the character? Roll or point buy? If point buy, how many points?

I've got a theory.

Quasqueton

 

[Spatula]

Actually, I wasn't talking about the "-1" modifier. I was purely talking about ability scores

My point was, the ability score isn't the only way to look at it. There's the bonuses/penalities associated with the score, there's the distribution of scores and where a specific score fits into it, etc.

And Spatula, you're off in your number above, since you are ignoring minimums, maximums and the baseline average. If 10 (+0) *is* average, and 0 (-5) is the absolute minimum,

It's not. 3 (-4) is the absolute minimum for a human. 18 (+4) is the max, disgregarding stat increases from levels or magic. The baseline average is 10.5 (+0), as I already mentioned. But any way you look at the bonuses or penalties, they are all applied to d20 rolls, and a -1 is only a 5% difference in that regard.

 

[Spatula]

AS a general rule when I create characters I move all ability scores up to 10 and then increase appropriate skills from there. Then again I always throw at least a couple cross class points into diplomacy and a few other areas so that I don't look like a hermit who just came straight out of his cave.

Almost sounds to me like the conflict is stemming from the DM not liking the player's character's choices.

 

[kkoie]

DocM certainly doesn't sound like he's interested in changing the way he DM's things. The player doesn't sound like he can change the way he plays. Something is going to have to give sooner or later. Obviously the DM can't leave the campaign, that leaves the player.

Leaving a campaign should be a last resort, and it should be because of multiple reasons not just one.

If the player can't find any way to work around the challenge the DM has set forth, then thats a problem with the individual player, not the DM or their styles or anything of that nature. If the player can't resolve the problem and ends up leaving the campaign, then I think he's just being a wimp and giving up. Its not like DocM made the situation impossible or anything.

I dunno, maybe the situation between DM and Player has gone to a head, in which case the player might just decide to up and leave. But I find it hard to understand that a player would be that obtuse that he just wouldn't get it, or just wouldn't want to find some solution to work around the problem other than constant whining.

 

[Dreeble]

Heya:

It sort of feels like some people are focusing too much on that 8 Cha and not enough on the character's lack of social skills. Sure, fighters don't get many skill points, but zero ranks in any social skill says to me we have a character that doesn't care about consequences in social settings. Sure, the player cares about consequences in social settings, he wants better deals. He doesn't seem to get that his character disagrees with him.

Summary: No ranks in any social skills >> 8 Cha.

[Edit: I suspect that the Bard is not as completely lacking in combat skills as the combat machine is lacking in social skills, thus explaining why the Bard doesn't have as severe problems in combat (other than being far less effective) as the combat machine has in a shop.]

Take care,
Dreeble

 

[Greybar]

There is certainly a split here between player ability and character ability.

In my game I have a player who, in D&D terms would have a high Charisma. His character doesn't have a high Charisma. Yet, when roleplaying he can be very persuasive... Fortunately he generally holds the role well and becomes blunt and somewhat rude. See the distinction?

A player's Int, Wis, Chr can seem to supplant the character's Int, Wis, Chr. A player's Str, Dex, Con have no impact on the game.

So do you let people dump into their Int, Wis, Chr stat-wise, and then use their smarts to make up for their character's lack? No, that's where the mechanisms come in. Without disrupting the flow too much, ask for Diplomacy rolls, Sense Motive rolls, etc. That can reinforce when the character is not as good as the player.

John

 

[takyris]

But any way you look at the bonuses or penalties, they are all applied to d20 rolls, and a -1 is only a 5% difference in that regard.

Which really means that an average but untrained person has only a 20% better chance of success in Diplomacy than the least Charismatic human on the face of the planet (3, with a -4).

This means either that the dice don't differentiate enough, or that the difference between a 3 and a 10 shouldn't be that great, in the minds of the designers.

Personally, I prefer to do things in much the same was that Doc does (I think) -- in roleplaying situations, I play up low scores, but when it comes time for the dice to roll, it's still only a -1.

-Tacky

 

[Quasqueton]

Originally posted by DocMoriartty
AS a general rule when I create characters I move all ability scores up to 10 and then increase appropriate skills from there. Then again I always throw at least a couple cross class points into diplomacy and a few other areas so that I don't look like a hermit who just came straight out of his cave.

Curious.

If you don't put ranks in the ride skill, can you not ride a horse?

If you don't put ranks in the appraise skill, can you not recognize a gem when you see one?

If you don't put ranks in the climb skill, can you not go up or down a ladder?

Why would not having a rank in a social skill mean you can't socialize better than "a hermit who just came straight out of his cave"?

Quasqueton

 

[kkoie]

Why would not having a rank in a social skill mean you can't socialize better than "a hermit who just came straight out of his cave"?

The character in question can perform obvious social skills, DocM said so himself when he said he can make normal purchases without any problems. The only time his lack of social skills has an impact is when the character wants to make a major purchase. So just like the ride skill or climb skill, it helps with normal activities, but with the major ones, if you lack skill, and have a poor score in the ability, you will be in trouble.

 

[Endur]

8 isn't unbalanced

I disagree.

I have a 28 point buy character whose highest stat is a 14 and his lowest stat is an 8. I don't think he is unbalanced.

I put 14's in str, dex, con, chr
12 in wis
8 in int

Yes, the character suffers for an 8 int (can't have expertise, has very few skill points and languages, etc.).

But, I don't consider that character unbalanced.

On the other hand, I made a character once (with 28 point buy) who had:
Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int:8
Wis: 8
Chr: 8

This character was unbalanced.

(Oh, yeah, the above doesn't count the racial modifiers for being an half-orc barbarian).

You don't get it do you. Going from 16 to 18 costs 6 points. If you leave your main stat at a 16 then you have 6 more points to spend. That is 3 of your 5 remaining stats you can move from 8 to 10. On a 28 point buy that pretty well guaruntees you dont have an 8 unless you really unbalance your stats.