Charmed opponents

[Cheiromancer]

A mixture of rules and house rules questions here. Basically I want to know what the limits are of charm person and it's variants:

1. If a combat situation has erupted or is imminent (a face-off is just now turning into combat)- does the target of the spell get the +5 bonus to save as described in the spell for being threatened?

2. If the subject of the charm is alone, it will become the caster's bestest buddy, and conflict will cease. But if the subject's comrades in arms are still fighting, what action will the charmed individual take? Total defense? Attack for subdual damage only?

3. If the wizard tries to order the subject to take particular actions in combat which requires the subject to fight his comrades, is a charisma check required? Some commands might be to attack the enemy's spellcasters rather than defend the wizard, and to use lethal force rather than subdual force.

4. If someone on the subject's side says- "Kill him! He's charmed!" what will the subject's comrades do? Suppose the subject of the spell counter-accuses, or is the first to accuse someone (falsely) of being charmed?

Rather than covering all possible variations, consider the scenario where the party is trying to get into a keep to kill the evil baron. They've met a patrol unit of the baron's troops, and failed their bluff and disguise rolls to persuade them that they have legitimate business and should be allowed to pass. Weapons have been drawn, arrows nocked, but no-one on the party's side has yet attacked- they are holding their actions so the wizard can cast a spell.

 

[pontus]

1. Yes.

2. That depends on the subject's personality. The caster is now his trusted friend, but the caster's allies are not. Telling his buddies to "take the wizard alive" while killing the rest of the party is not too unreasonable.

If the caster is alone, and has not killed any of the charmed character's other friends yet then the fight might end entirely. "Wait guys, he's cool. Don't worry."

3. Opposed checks are definitely required. The target of the charm spell doesn't just stop trusting the rest of his allies.

4. They'll kill the caster. If the charmed character intervenes then they can just knock him unconscious.


For your example, the wizard had better charm the officer of the group. If he says to let the party go then his men will, unless they're aware of the charm person spell.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

PHB p 183 from the charm person description: "If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, he receives a +5 bonus on his saving throw."

1. So, the charmee gets the +5 bonus if combat has erupted or is imminent--or if any party member is trying to intimidate him.

2. The subject of the charm becomes the wizard's friend--the friendship doesn't extend to the wizard's friends or companions. If the rest of the pary is attacking the charmee's comerades in arms, the charmee will probably attack the rest of the party using his best attacks and dealing real damage. (After all, there are a bunch of thugs he doesn't know or care for attacking his comerades in arms). In fact, if he would consider it his duty to arrest and bring in a friend, he might even attack the person who had charmed him for subdual damage. Charms don't work too well against paladins or other lawful folk.

3. Charm is not dominate. It does not allow the wizard to order the subject to do anything. The wizard can attempt to persuade the subject to do something, however, he will not kill other friends. Keep in mind that the subject sees a fight between a group of his friends and a group of thugs who include one of his friends. He won't stab his comerade in the back (although he might disrupt a spell (grappling or subdual damage only) if he thought that it would directly harm the wizard. OTOH, if the subject really isn't loyal to his comerades in arms and they're not his friends, he might very well stab them in the back. Charm works best on chaotic evil villains (for them it's a choice between convenient allies they don't really trust and wouldn't mind betraying and the wizard who has all of a sudden become a real friend).

4. I would imagine this would depend upon the subjects comrades. Most parties wouldn't kill a charmed party member. They might ignore or subdue him but they wouldn't kill him. OTOH, a charmed orc in the ruthless evil overlord's army has a very short life expectancy.

In the situation you describe, I would roll initiative unless the wizard is taking pains to conceal the fact that he's casting a spell (still spell, disguise spell, etc). Party members who beat the wizard in initiative can delay or ready. Guards would probably also ready actions. And when the wizard casts the spell, all the excrement would hit the Quaal's feather token. Alternately, you could give the wizard a surprise round in which the charm goes off and then do initiative but that doesn't really seem to capture the fact that everyone on both sides is ready and waiting for hostilities (like spellcasting) to commence. The initiative roll would represent the wizard hiding his casting too well for the other side to react to it, being too quick for them to shoot before he cast (like an old west gunfight), or a momentary lapse in their attention during the 3 minute negotiations where combat is imminent.