D&D 5E Charms and Combat

[abirdcall]

Abilities that charm tend to assume that the party is not in combat and often give provisions (usually penalties) for what happens if they are cast in combat.

They are also things that other creatures typically don't want to have happen to them.

If a player says "I cast Fireball" we roll initiative and see what happens. Does the enemy get the jump on the party and go first? The game resolves hostile action this way so that it isn't just who announces first goes first which would cause game play problems. It is a compromise from going to a timeline of minutes to seconds.

So what happens if a play says "I cast Charm Person." I cast "Enthrall." Or uses a feature or ability which charms.

In order to have enchantments have their proper place in the narrative I resolve them without going into combat.

For spells I think of the verbal and somatic components as being entirely different in nature to something like Fireball. They are words and gestures which may be interpreted as friendly, interesting, or whatever else is appropriate. If the magic doesn't work the caster may end up looking foolish and savvy targets may know what was just attempted.

I don't really see another way of handling them that is fair to the enchanter. If the PCs are targetted by an enchanter it is a matter of playing in good faith to separate player and character knowledge of the situation.

 

[payn]

For me it depends how aware the character(s) are of each other. Is the caster being sneaky about it? Does the caster have any abilities that allows them to cast undetected? If not, I'll look at the situation. Is it a crowded market or full tavern? If there is a reasonable situation I might give a caster a surprise round. If there are no subterfuge options, and no reason for the target to be distracted, then I'll go straight to initiative.

 

[iserith]

In my games, if the person is friendly or different to the PCs, charm person doesn't require initiative. If the person is hostile to the PCs, charm person may be interpreted as an attack and we'll go to initiative.

 

[Lyxen]

I don't really see another way of handling them that is fair to the enchanter. If the PCs are targetted by an enchanter it is a matter of playing in good faith to separate player and character knowledge of the situation.

I agree. What I call good players actually enjoy being charmed by an enemy, and roleplaying it. On the other hand, bad (entitled) players will complain about the loss of of their sacrosanct "player agency", and whine and do everything that they can to create trouble at the table. I know the kind of players I'd rather be playing with...

 

[payn]

In my games, if the person is friendly or different to the PCs, charm person doesn't require initiative. If the person is hostile to the PCs, charm person may be interpreted as an attack and we'll go to initiative.

Even Friendly and indifferent characters take offense to unsolicited spell casting on them in my settings.

 

[abirdcall]

For me it depends how aware the character(s) are of each other. Is the caster being sneaky about it? Does the caster have any abilities that allows them to cast undetected? If not, I'll look at the situation. Is it a crowded market or full tavern? If there is a reasonable situation I might give a caster a surprise round. If there are no subterfuge options, and no reason for the target to be distracted, then I'll go straight to initiative.

What if the spell is Tongues? Is that initiative?

 

[iserith]

Even Friendly and indifferent characters take offense to unsolicited spell casting on them in my settings.

I way I think of it, they are less inclined to jump to a conclusion about what is going on as compared to a hostile NPC.

 

[payn]

What if the spell is Tongues? Is that initiative?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt tongues a spell a character casts on their self? If it is a target spell, yes folks dont appreciate folks tossing around spells unsolicited regardless of intent.

 

[abirdcall]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt tongues a spell a character casts on their self? If it is a target spell, yes folks dont appreciate folks tossing around spells unsolicited regardless of intent.

I guess I'm trying to figure out if it is spellcasting in general that people are reacting to or if you're calling for initiative on anything that you determine to be hostile.

What if it just a Bard making a performance? Their magic is inherently performance based.

How about the charm effect on Summon Fae Spirit? The spirit teleports to a space and then charms a creature. It is essentially just the creature being cute.

I've decided to categorize enchantment effects like this that don't cause direct harm as not prompting a move to initiative time. I just don't think they really work otherwise.

 

[Stalker0]

What if the spell is Tongues? Is that initiative?

So let’s look at the context. Your trying to communicate with a person, but can’t because of a language barrier.

suddenly that person pulls from their pocket a small building, and waves it at you in a crazy nearly alien motion, while forcely speaking some words even more foreign and crazy than the last.

Wouldn’t that freak you out?

magic is really not subtle as described in the core book, and it’s assumed most people don’t know what a spell does as it’s cast, just that magic is happening.

so if I was already jumpy and worried about a person, I might absolutely attack first if I feared some crazy spell being cast on me