Clarification of Grappling

[Groutknoll]

I just want to check if I have this right.

A grapple attempt is an touch attack which provokes an AOO followed by a grapple check, if AOO hits then grapple attempt fails.

Character has a BAB of < +6 and making grapple attempts, assuming AOO misses.
Make attack of BAB+Mods, provokes an AOO, grapple attempt.

Or with improved grapple.
Make attack of BAB+Mods, NO AOO (imp. grapple), grapple attempt +4 (imp. grapple).

Or using primary and off-hand attacks, both attacks are unarmed.
Make attack of BAB+Mods+(-4 primary or -8 off-hand), provokes an AOO, grapple attempt.

Or using primary and off-hand attacks, both attacks are unarmed, with Two weapon fighting.
Make attack of BAB+Mods+(-2 primary or -2 off-hand), provokes an AOO, grapple attempt.


Note: an unarmed strike is ALWAYS considered a light weapon.

If the grapple is successful, you can move into opponent’s square or pull opponent into your square as a free action.

You cannot use two weapons in grappling as stated under Attack Your Opponent in the grappling section of the PHB.

All grapplers loose their dex to AC for attacks from non-grapplers.

A pinned opponent is immobile and therefore loses dex to AC, if grappler is a rouge then sneak attack damage is applied during Damage Your Opponent (opposed grapple check).

Precise Shot removes the 50% chance to hit a friendly grappling with a ranged attack.

Thanks.

 

[jonrog1]

A pinned opponent is immobile and therefore loses dex to AC, if grappler is a rouge then sneak attack damage is applied during Damage Your Opponent (opposed grapple check).
Thanks.

Here's the only place you go astray. Even when pinned, your grappling opponent maintains his Dex bonus vs. YOU. Your buddy the rogue, however, can sneak attack to his heart's content. A good teamwork combo for a party.

I use a grappling-only fighter in my party, here's my checklist:

MY GRAPPLE CHECK: (BAB) + (STR) + (MODS from feats, circum, etc.)
MY TOUCH ATTACK: (BAB) + (STR) + (MODS, usually none)

1.) Touch attack. Opponent gets AoO.
2.) If AoO causes damage, grapple automatically fails.
3.) If touch attack succeeds, make opposed grapple check.
4.) If grapple check succeeds,
a.) Move into same space as opponent.
b.) Opponent and you are grappling - you both lose your Dex bonuses to everyone except each other.
c.) You now automatically do your unarmed damage to your opponent. (usually subdual unless you have Improved Unarmed Strike)

5.) Every round, you can make as many grapple checks as you have base attacks, at those BABS. The list of things you can do with those grapple checks is clearly state din the PHB.

A quick note -- if you attack with a light weapon, like a dagger, you don't make an opposed grapple check, you make an attack at -4.

You use an opp. grapple check to do unarmed damage. This is why Monks are nasty, because they do nasty unarmed damage, but often grapple checks are easier to beat than hitting an opponent's armor class.

Hope that was helpful.

 

[JimAde]

I'm no expert, but...

Character has a BAB of < +6 and making grapple attempts, assuming AOO misses.
Make attack of BAB+Mods, provokes an AOO, grapple attempt.

Or with improved grapple.
Make attack of BAB+Mods, NO AOO (imp. grapple), grapple attempt +4 (imp. grapple).

I believe the above is correct.

Or using primary and off-hand attacks, both attacks are unarmed.
Make attack of BAB+Mods+(-4 primary or -8 off-hand), provokes an AOO, grapple attempt.

Or using primary and off-hand attacks, both attacks are unarmed, with Two weapon fighting.
Make attack of BAB+Mods+(-2 primary or -2 off-hand), provokes an AOO, grapple attempt.

Note: an unarmed strike is ALWAYS considered a light weapon.

I'm pretty sure you can't do this. You can't attack with an unarmed strike and then get a free grapple attempt unless you have Improved Grab (a monster feat). Regular characters have to declare they are trying to grapple before they make their attack, and it's a touch attack that does no damage.

If the grapple is successful, you can move into opponent’s square or pull opponent into your square as a free action.

You move into the opponent's square. You can only pull the opponent into your square if you have Improved Grab.

You cannot use two weapons in grappling as stated under Attack Your Opponent in the grappling section of the PHB.

All grapplers loose their dex to AC for attacks from non-grapplers.

I believe the above is correct.

A pinned opponent is immobile and therefore loses dex to AC, if grappler is a rouge then sneak attack damage is applied during Damage Your Opponent (opposed grapple check).

Is that right? Since the opponent does not lose his Dex bonus to AC against the other grappler, I don't know if this is correct. The description of pin says the opponent is immobile, which would seem to imply the loss of dex bonus, but it doesn't say it explicitly. Regardless, your example says the grappler has a BAB < +6, so he won't be able to damage his opponent while having him pinned. His single attack every round has to go to maintaining the pin.

Precise Shot removes the 50% chance to hit a friendly grappling with a ranged attack.

That's Improved Precise Shot. The regular variety just removes the -4 to hit someone in melee.

Thanks.

You're welcome

 

[Mahali]

Unless they changed it in 3.5 you only get the number of grapple checks your base BAB allows. So no off-hand grapple attempt.

This still allowed Monks to Flurry since they had UBAB but with 3.5 monks eliminates that in grappling as well.

 

[Groutknoll]

Hmm looks like the PHB is vague on this.

In a grapple you and your opponent keep thier DEX bonus agianst each other. During a pin your opponent is immobile. The immobile condition causes loss of DEX bonus.

The grapple rules do not say if a pinned opponent keeps his DEX bonus to you.

From the If Your Pinned by an Opponent section of the grapple rules, it says that that you are immobile and take an additional -4 to AC agiants opponents other than the one pinning you. Does this imply that you do not lose your DEX bonus in a pin?

Here's the only place you go astray. Even when pinned, your grappling opponent maintains his Dex bonus vs. YOU. Your buddy the rogue, however, can sneak attack to his heart's content. A good teamwork combo for a party.

 

[Groutknoll]

Where is this rule located ? I only know of this from the PHB:
Starting a Grapple

To start a grapple, you need to grab and hold your target. Starting a grapple requires a successful melee attack roll. If you get multiple attacks, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times (at successively lower base attack bonuses).

Unless they changed it in 3.5 you only get the number of grapple checks your base BAB allows. So no off-hand grapple attempt.

This still allowed Monks to Flurry since they had UBAB but with 3.5 monks eliminates that in grappling as well.

 

[Camarath]

Hmm looks like the PHB is vague on this.

In a grapple you and your opponent keep thier DEX bonus agianst each other. During a pin your opponent is immobile. The immobile condition causes loss of DEX bonus.

Could please you post the rule that states that being immobile causes one to lose one's dex bonus?

 

[Artoomis]

Could please you post the rule that states that being immobile causes one to lose one's dex bonus?

I'll answer that one. There is no "condition" called "immobile." However, the full effect on Dex and AC is:

You lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one) against opponents you aren’t grappling. (You can still use it against opponents you are grappling.)

When an opponent has pinned you, you are held immobile (but not helpless) for 1 round. While you’re pinned, you take a –4 penalty to your AC against opponents other than the one pinning you.

There is no effect on Dex between you and your grappling opponent. Not that it matters too much, since the only way he can attack you is to use your own weapon against you - and that attack is at -4.