Class Mod - Starting abilities

[Bayonet_Chris]

This is something I've done in my game and I'm curious as to what the community at large thinks. To avoid rampant multi-classing for the sake of picking up a cool special ability rather than a concrete story explanation, I've separated several class abilities into "starting abilities", meaning they can only be gained if you start out in that class at first level.

Part of this is subtracting the 1st level bonus on any saving throws from the normal progression chart and making that a starting ability.

For example, a first level fighter gains the following:
Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, light armor,medium armor, heavy armor, shield, tower shield
Saving Throws: First level fighters gain a +2 bonus to Fortitude saving throws (to offset losing 2 on the Fortitude chart)
Bonus Feat: First level fighters gain a bonus feat - normal list

Multi-classing into fighter will gain you +1 BAB and solid hit points, but not much more without investing more into it. You have to get two levels to get bonus feats and you still need to buy proficiencies for weapons you don't start off with.

Almost all of the base SRD classes can be modified this way:
Barbarian: Fast Movement, Rage, Fort +2, Weapon/Armor; Illiteracy
Bard: Ref +2, Will +2, Weapon/Armor, Inspire Courage +1 (reduce others by 1 for m/c)
Cleric: Fort +2, Ref +2, Weapon/Armor - m/c gain restrictions of faith
Druid: Fort +2, Will +2, Weapon/Armor, Animal Companion (m/c gain at 4th) - m/c gain restrictions of faith
Fighter: As listed above
Monk: All saves +2, Weapon/Armor, Bonus Feat (push selections out for m/c?)
Paladin: Fort +2, Weapon/Armor, Smite 1/day
Ranger: Fort +2, Ref +2, Weapon/Armor, Favored Enemy, Track
Rogue: Ref +2, Sneak Attack, Weapon/Armor
Sorcerer: Will +2, Summon Familiar, Weapon/Armor
Wizard: Will +2, Scribe Scroll, Summon Familiar, Weapon/Armor

It's not perfect. I have adjusted the base classes to compensate (and also because I don't like many of the base classes) and it is very nice.

 

[Spatzimaus]

The sentiment is fine, it's the implementation I'd worry about.

> The +2 save problem is already covered by the UA fractional save/BAB system; you only get the +2 "good" save bonus once. I'd just suggest using that system.

> The weapon/armor proficiencies are a separate issue. IMC, we use an AD&Dish weapon proficiency system that solves the weapon side of things. The armor side isn't very abuseable, in my experience, since so many classes have ability-related reasons to not wear the heavy stuff (ranger pseudofeats, arcane casting, ACP).

That leaves the few other abilities you've linked to classes. And some of those are just really unbalanced. For instance, if you multiclass into Barbarian, you can't get Rage? That's a big slice of the class' abilities right there! Same goes for Rogues' Sneak Attack and Rangers' Favored Enemy.

And frankly, there are already quite a few limiting factors in place to prevent the worst "one level of everything" multiclass abuses, once you add the fractional BAB/save system. Favored Class helps with this a bit, which makes it even more ironic that many people houserule it away. Epic rules hurt multiclassing a LOT, although few campaigns go epic. The bigger motivation is just that so many class abilities are exponential. +1d6 Sneak Attack is useful, but not really worth building a character around, while +10d6 is just plain HUGE.

 

[Celebrim]

The only reason I can think of for doing this is the weapon/armor proficiencies which are hidden bonus feats, and that only really comes up with adding new base classes to the game. For example, alot of people would like a 'cleric' that didn't default to armored spell-caster, and so try to create a divine spell caster that trades superior abilities in other areas for no armor proficiencies. This is immediately broken if you take 1 level in some armored class (even cleric) in order to get the three or more 'bonus feats' that come with heavy armor/shield proficiency. The end result is often a full blown cleric with better spell-casting and other goodies.

However, even then I think there are alternate approaches to the problem as are used by the other base classes. For example, hypothetical armorless divine spellcaster might be subject to the arcane spell failure chance.

The class abilities are themselves not a particular problem because dipping for one level of rogue or barbarian (the most common dips I see) gets you only a 1st level characters ability. It's nice, but in the long run no better (or at least not much better) than other choices that they had available. Many levels in one class tends to be much better than a few levels in several because higher level abilities tend to be so much better than lower level ones.

As for the saving throws, its a compartively minor issue since in most cases you are also tanking BAB. Simply enforce the favored class rules and/or apply the fractional system from UA that Spatzimaus mentions.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

> The +2 save problem is already covered by the UA fractional save/BAB system; you only get the +2 "good" save bonus once. I'd just suggest using that system.

I think this is basically the same thing. Characters get the "good bonus" at 1st level and never again.

That leaves the few other abilities you've linked to classes. And some of those are just really unbalanced. For instance, if you multiclass into Barbarian, you can't get Rage? That's a big slice of the class' abilities right there! Same goes for Rogues' Sneak Attack and Rangers' Favored Enemy.

No, just at first level. Someone multi-classing into rogue would get sneak attack at 3rd level. A barbarian would get rage at 4th, rangers would get favored enemy at 5th, etc. It works better with the class adjustments I've made, but I was curious as to the implementation on the base grouping.

 

[Spatzimaus]

I think this is basically the same thing. Characters get the "good bonus" at 1st level and never again.

No, that's not the same thing. Example: Class A gets a good Fortitude save, class B gets a good Will save. Under your system, if you went A then B, you'd get the +2 to Fort and not the Will boost, while B then A reverses this. Under the UA system, you'd still get both +2s; you just couldn't get +4 if you did something like Fighter/Monk (which both have good Fort).

Someone multi-classing into rogue would get sneak attack at 3rd level. A barbarian would get rage at 4th, rangers would get favored enemy at 5th, etc.

This still needs to be cleared up, and is the reason I mentioned those three classes.
> Is the only difference for multiclass Barbarians the number of rages per day? That is, do you still get Greater Rage at 11, Indomitable Will at 14, Tireless Rage at 17, and Mighty Rage at 20? If so, then it's not much of a penalty (it's not even a single Feat-equivalent, since IIRC you can just take Extra Rage as a Feat to add two uses per day), but if you start penalizing all those other things as well, it's a huge penalty. On the other hand, the loss of Fast Movement is crippling in its own right.
> If the only thing the Rogue sacrifices is a single 1d6 of the Sneak Attack, it's not much of a drawback.
> Favored Enemy is iterative. That is, at 5th level, you pick a new enemy group at +2 AND increment one of your previous groups by +2. Having a multiclasser lose the +2 at level 1 hurts double because they also don't get the "previous group" increment at 5.

My point is, the amount sacrificed is wildly varying. Sorcerers lose almost nothing (oh no, I don't get a familiar!), while Monks and Rangers lose a ton. It's just not balanced.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

No, that's not the same thing. Example: Class A gets a good Fortitude save, class B gets a good Will save. Under your system, if you went A then B, you'd get the +2 to Fort and not the Will boost, while B then A reverses this. Under the UA system, you'd still get both +2s; you just couldn't get +4 if you did something like Fighter/Monk (which both have good Fort).

Oh, OK. I'm not sure I like that.

This still needs to be cleared up, and is the reason I mentioned those three classes.
> Is the only difference for multiclass Barbarians the number of rages per day? That is, do you still get Greater Rage at 11, Indomitable Will at 14, Tireless Rage at 17, and Mighty Rage at 20? If so, then it's not much of a penalty (it's not even a single Feat-equivalent, since IIRC you can just take Extra Rage as a Feat to add two uses per day), but if you start penalizing all those other things as well, it's a huge penalty. On the other hand, the loss of Fast Movement is crippling in its own right.
> If the only thing the Rogue sacrifices is a single 1d6 of the Sneak Attack, it's not much of a drawback.
> Favored Enemy is iterative. That is, at 5th level, you pick a new enemy group at +2 AND increment one of your previous groups by +2. Having a multiclasser lose the +2 at level 1 hurts double because they also don't get the "previous group" increment at 5.

My point is, the amount sacrificed is wildly varying. Sorcerers lose almost nothing (oh no, I don't get a familiar!), while Monks and Rangers lose a ton. It's just not balanced.

Yeah, I figured as much. That's why I altered the base classes as a whole (mostly from an EoM conversion, but also because I irrationally hate monks).

 

[Flame_Excess]

There could effectively be an additional rule on multiclassing but I believe that it should be simpler than the one you suggest. You might have to force the character to take at least three levels in the desired class. The reason would be to "not forget their lessons" too easyly.