D&D (2024) Class spell lists and pact magic are back!

[mamba]

They did TWO videos on this concept to explain how the comments make up a meaningful portion of this and it's not all just the raw numbers and you're acting like none of that happened?

I am not saying it didn't happen, I am saying it shouldn't factor in

I mean OK, if you think they're just liars I guess that's the beginning and end of that conversation.

Never said that is what I think they are. I think they are wrong about how they go about this. Not the same thing

 

[MockingBird]

to me you have the 1 to 5 to express your level of dislike / like. Comments should not factor into this at all, you can add proposals there etc, but you disliking something does not make it stronger because you wrote 'I hate this' in the comment box.

I use the comment to further explain why I did or didn't like something. I also use the comment at the end to bring up anything I did or didn't like that wasn't explicitly called out in the survey. From the videos they've given us I get the feeling the comments have some weight of their own. I remember at the start of the playtest some people were adamant that WotC ignored the written comments, so WotC made a point to highlight this wasn't true.

 

[Umbran]

well, they got kicked, so you won’t get a reply…

The way I understand it is that if 60% fails, then 40% killed it. 40% is a minority.

Nothing is ever that simple.

First of all - this assumes the decision was made ONLY on the basis of the voting, that no other factors were considered in the decision. I don't know that there's evidence to support that.

Second, if you have two versions you are comparing - one is liked by 60%, the other liked by 80%, the point is likely less that the 40% who didn't like the first "killed it". It is more that only 20% didn't like the second, and that is therefore an excellent choice!

 

[mamba]

I use the comment to further explain why I did or didn't like something. I also use the comment at the end to bring up anything I did or didn't like that wasn't explicitly called out in the survey.

That is absolutely fine, to me that is what they are there for

From the videos they've given us I get the feeling the comments have some weight of their own. I remember at the start of the playtest some people were adamant that WotC ignored the written comments, so WotC made a point to highlight this wasn't true.

I got the same impression, like 5% write 'I absolutely hate this' and it will not make it, no matter what the rest says. I disagree that this should factor in.

 

[mamba]

Nothing is ever that simple.

First of all - this assumes the decisions was made ONLY on the basis of the voting, that no other factors were considered in the decision. I don't know that there's evidence to support that.

Second, if you have two versions you are comparing - one is liked by 60%, the other liked by 80%, the point is likely less that the 40% who didn't like the first "killed it". It is more that only 20% didn't like the second, and that is therefore an excellent choice!

I understand that, I was explaining my understanding of what a 3rd person meant when they wrote that a minority can kill something.

If you have two competing options, one getting 60% and one getting 80%, the 80% wins. On the other hand, if you have one option and 60% means you kill it and then go back to whatever you have now, then a minority can indeed kill it.

 

[Maxperson]

to me you have the 1 to 5 to express your level of dislike / like. Comments should not factor into this at all, you can add proposals there etc, but you disliking something does not make it stronger because you wrote 'I hate this' in the comment box.

Yes! This is my biggest pet peeve about how WotC has gone about psionics for 5e. They keep giving us one type and then asking us approve or disapprove, but people have different ideas about the best way to do it, so they will fail the way that isn't it. The problem with that approach is that many still like the way given, but just not as much as their "best" way, but WotC never sees that.

If they just hit us with a bunch of different methods and had us rate them from love on down to hate, they'd easily be able to come up with a way that due to overlap of goodness, meets their threshold and gives us a psionic class that people will like. Instead they just told us that they can't get to their threshold and dropped psionics.

WoTC needs to stop doing these polls and get a company that knows what they are doing to design them.

 

[Maxperson]

I use the comment to further explain why I did or didn't like something. I also use the comment at the end to bring up anything I did or didn't like that wasn't explicitly called out in the survey. From the videos they've given us I get the feeling the comments have some weight of their own. I remember at the start of the playtest some people were adamant that WotC ignored the written comments, so WotC made a point to highlight this wasn't true.

A lot of people don't do that, though, and a rating system is much easier to use in any case. Plus it prompts people to do it and consider rules in that light, where they might not be doing that on their own.

 

[Umbran]

I understand that, I was explaining my understanding of what a 3rd person meant when they wrote that a minority can kill something.

Sure. I was making visible the flaw in that thinking, is all.

If you have two competing options, one getting 60% and one getting 80%, the 80% wins. On the other hand, if you have one option and 60% means you kill it and then go back to whatever you have now, then a minority can indeed kill it.

Well, that also assumes that they have no knowledge of how popular what they have now is - if they know it has, say, 75% approval, then it reduces to the prior case.

It is a little weird to say, "A minority killed it" instead of "A majority chose the other one."

 

[UngeheuerLich]

well, they got kicked, so you won’t get a reply…

The way I understand it is that if 60% fails, then 40% killed it. 40% is a minority.

While this is partially true, it does not mean that only 40% liked the old version.

It could mean that 80% liked the old version and only 60% liked the new version.
So while a majority likes the new version, an even bigger majority liked the old version.

Or even if both are around 60%, it just means that the new version is not so good that it is worth destroying backwards compatibility.

Just assuming a minirity is killing it is having a wrong understanding of statistics involved.

 

[renbot]

This is a very, very important point. Humans are humans, and being human we like to complain loudly to everyone who wants to hear it, and also to the other 99% who don't. When we are happy, though, we rarely go out of our way to make sure everyone knows it.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease" and happy people don't squeak.

Ha! So true. I was just noting to a friend that, although I have only written a handful of Yelp/Yelp-adjacent reviews over the course of my life, all but one have been negative. REALLY negative! I was concerned what that might say about my personality.