Yaarel
He Mage
I read your post, but now make note of there being more than one dispute.
I also agree, "heretic" simply means someone is a member of "different" sacred tradition. It isnt necessarily good or bad, just different.
D&D General Cleretic advice
I also agree, "heretic" simply means someone is a member of "different" sacred tradition. It isnt necessarily good or bad, just different.
plecostomus
Villager
What I have for my Cleric character is he's from a small cult devoted to X god, rather than the main clergy of the time. You don't have to go as far as a cult if you don't want, you can have a sect of the main clergy that differs on one or two interpretations of the god's will. Selecting a god you feel can have variable interpretations, or that has lore where they change over time/behave in unexpected ways is helpful here. Talk to your GM.
You should also think about local or regional circumstances. My Cleric's cult had neighbors who worshiped a different god. The two gods are friends in the lore, so my Cleric aspires towards that neighbor god's teachings even without being an active worshiper.
The existence of this divine friendship also gives him leeway to be more pantheistic now that he's left his little cult and joined the wider world. He has prayers for gods that have been important in the events of the campaign, even though they aren't "his" god.
His cult also once repelled invading followers of another god, which is a backstory element that lets him recognize not all gods are good, and divinity does not inherently make right. So he will work against and curse the followers and temples of gods he finds wanting.
Another of the cult's neighbors was a group of Druids. Their nature worship informed my Cleric's practices, again without fully tipping the scale into Druidism. It's more like what naturally happens when a bunch of cultures exist in proximity: they borrow and exchange. He has prayers for things that aren't gods at all, like celestial bodies and Fey. His understanding of gods is also couched in natural phenomena like fires and storms. You can take precautions against a flood, weaken its strength in various ways (for him that means rooting out followers- but he's very hawkish), but there's no point getting angry at the flood itself.
Depending on how the GM envisions mainline clergy compared to your character's cult or your character's personal beliefs, almost any of these practices that originated at a very local level can create an atmosphere of tension and heresy.
You should also think about local or regional circumstances. My Cleric's cult had neighbors who worshiped a different god. The two gods are friends in the lore, so my Cleric aspires towards that neighbor god's teachings even without being an active worshiper.
The existence of this divine friendship also gives him leeway to be more pantheistic now that he's left his little cult and joined the wider world. He has prayers for gods that have been important in the events of the campaign, even though they aren't "his" god.
His cult also once repelled invading followers of another god, which is a backstory element that lets him recognize not all gods are good, and divinity does not inherently make right. So he will work against and curse the followers and temples of gods he finds wanting.
Another of the cult's neighbors was a group of Druids. Their nature worship informed my Cleric's practices, again without fully tipping the scale into Druidism. It's more like what naturally happens when a bunch of cultures exist in proximity: they borrow and exchange. He has prayers for things that aren't gods at all, like celestial bodies and Fey. His understanding of gods is also couched in natural phenomena like fires and storms. You can take precautions against a flood, weaken its strength in various ways (for him that means rooting out followers- but he's very hawkish), but there's no point getting angry at the flood itself.
Depending on how the GM envisions mainline clergy compared to your character's cult or your character's personal beliefs, almost any of these practices that originated at a very local level can create an atmosphere of tension and heresy.
Zardnaar
Legend
To me it's more a member of a tradition with different beliefs.
Using Pelor/Lathendar god of the Sun. A heretic might follow h8m but also see him having dominion over the stars or moon. Or asan aspect or reincarnation of a different God.
In older editions it depends on how far you go eg you might push the sun god as a dawn or twilight deity with slightly different doctrine. This might mean you still get spells but the clergy doesn't like you.
Going as far as worshipping them as a darkness god would offend that God if applicable and likely get you booted from the faith or your spells revoked.
In 5E you can't really do that but are still somewhat limited by domain. You can believe what you like but still have to pick from that Deities domains.
FR material has included clerics losing abilities in 5E however so there's also that.
Yaarel
He Mage
The domain establishes the sacred theme.
How to interpret and apply a theme depends on the community.
The Cleric with a sacred community, is much like a Warlock with a pact: the player needs to decide what the concept is, and what expectations for the relationship will be, and the DM needs to figure out how to make that work within the setting.
Even a sun being can associate with a Darkness Domain. For example, an eclipse concept. Especially, the concept might be that the sun disk sets and sinks below the horizon to then travel underground thru the realm of the dead to then rise back up in the morning on the other side. This darkness-of-night during a journey-of-death can be a meaningful sacred concept.
It depends on what the player and the DM figure out together. The sacred community and its traditions are key to making a Cleric concept work.
Again a "sacred community" can be devoted to any cosmic principle or ideal.
I am unaware of this. What are you referring to? In 5e?
Zardnaar
Legend
Rime of the Froat Maiden. If Auril dies her followers lose spells until next winter iirc.
Yaarel
He Mage
Huh. That actually shouldnt happen. Can you doublecheck that?
Just hypothesizing, maybe her followers arent actually Clerics, and rather, she is somehow sharing her own spells with them?
Zardnaar
Legend
Probably tomorrow books somewhere.
aco175
Legend
Who from our past might have been considered a heretic? Was Jesus considered a heretic? He about Galileo, or King Henry 8th at least before breaking from the church. These may be bigger names that split off or were proven right over time, but what about all those people who thought God was behind the Hale-Bop comet and killed themselves like 30 years ago? They had an idea that was proven false and most people thought them silly more than dangerous to the faith.
I think playing a heretic could be fun with a good bad guy trying to foil you. I'm watching Shogun on TV right now and the Portuguese Bishops had the priest thrown in jail for disrupting their illegal trade with China. This is how the main character finds out about it and is able to prolong his life. There should be a BBEG who comes to believe that the PC is a threat and tries to get him to repent or have him killed after a while. There could be some sort of hit squad that is already or gets formed to stop the heretic. I might make it more a side thing going on rather than the main plot of the campaign.
There should also be some sort of main secret that the church wants to have hidden and the PC knows or believes to be true. Since both groups can cast spells, it should not be just getting someone to cast a spell and ask the god what its the truth. The god might not care and thinks that any follower is a good follower or the point of contention is not that big a deal to deal with.
I think playing a heretic could be fun with a good bad guy trying to foil you. I'm watching Shogun on TV right now and the Portuguese Bishops had the priest thrown in jail for disrupting their illegal trade with China. This is how the main character finds out about it and is able to prolong his life. There should be a BBEG who comes to believe that the PC is a threat and tries to get him to repent or have him killed after a while. There could be some sort of hit squad that is already or gets formed to stop the heretic. I might make it more a side thing going on rather than the main plot of the campaign.
There should also be some sort of main secret that the church wants to have hidden and the PC knows or believes to be true. Since both groups can cast spells, it should not be just getting someone to cast a spell and ask the god what its the truth. The god might not care and thinks that any follower is a good follower or the point of contention is not that big a deal to deal with.
Zardnaar
Legend
Actual new religions are not heretical but might get treated the same.
Also covered by my previous point that the heresy might either be correct or become correct eg Amauntor/Lathendar.
I used that because RL religious stuff is verboten.
Another example BG3. Gale can become a god. Following Galeis is not heresy. If Gale claims to be the new god of magic and a Mystaran cleric who believes aspects of Gales new Creed woukd be a heretic if Mystra was opposed to it.
3E had a heretic feat late in 3.5 FR work around the Amauntor situation.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
See... again I must disagree. There is a strong value judgement with the word. Heretic is a term applied by the dominant, the orthodoxy, branch of a religion, towards those who dare deviate/disagree too much. Heresy is "wrong", is punishable.
Very few people call themselves heretic, I used it to illustrate my point.
In a religion with a looser belief and power structure, there cannot be heresy - there is not strong central authority who can judge others' faith as deficient.
