Close Quarters Fighting (General Feat)

As noted from the entry in the monster manual (p.9) it says that a monster with the improved grab ability gets to "...start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity (see Grapple, page 137 in the Player's Handbook)." This is the verbatim wording under the special ability and directly refers you to the grappling section in the PHB. Close Quarters Fighting allows you to gain an attack of opportunity against opponents with the Improved Grab ability who make grapple attempts against you. Therefore, if you have Improved Grab and attempt a grapple against someone with the Close Quarters Fighting feat then your grapple attempt provokes an attack of opportunity. The PHB notes, under grappling, that when you make a successful AoO against your opponent which was caused by a grappling attempt and do damage then said grappling attempt fails. You have already noted that you do not understand why my path of logic leads me to confusion on this topic. There is no need to get excited and begin cursing over this topic since I do not have faith in your theories. I do understand that you define the Improved Grab ability as being completely separate and, as such, does not follow the standard rules for grappling. Unfortunately, my own logic does not coincide. It did indeed appear to me that you felt I was stupid by your actions. As one tends to yell at people who do not appear to understand them. My apologies Mister Reynolds if I took your intent wrongly. I only state what I see and can oft be blunt to the point of rudeness. I intended no ill will towards you by previous statements if they were taken as such. Until I receive a response from Sage Advice I can do nothing other than look for others who have encountered the same quandary. I still leave my original query open for any one else who might offer any information: Has anyone seen or heard any info on this topic from any other sources other than this thread?
 

log in or register to remove this ad


kreynolds said:


Close-Quarters Fighting already does that, bubba. :)
:o
My goodness, I have no idea why I thought that. For some odd reason, I SWORE (so righteously as to not even need to reread the feat:D) it said you could only use the feat once per round. I've said this in at least 3 other CQF threads, and this is the first time someone pointed out my error. That changes everything...this feat is GREAT. Take Combat Reflexes, and then you're practically grapple-proof. That is, unless your DM agrees with the Sage's ruling that you can only make one AoO per foe per round. Still, very useful against multiple grapplers, etc. My halfling rogue might be taking this feat next now. This feat is even better for small races, to counter the size bonus. Thanks for the nudge to my sleeping brain cells.:D
 

I do understand that you define the Improved Grab ability as being completely separate and, as such, does not follow the standard rules for grappling. Unfortunately, my own logic does not coincide.

Your logic is correct - from a purist's standpont - the text on QCF is irrelevant, as if you damage your opponent they do not succeed in a grapple. It comes from SaF - which doesn't suprise Me.

Until I receive a response from Sage Advice I can do nothing other than look for others who have encountered the same quandary. I still leave my original query open for any one else who might offer any information: Has anyone seen or heard any info on this topic from any other sources other than this thread?

Check the MM errata out; most critters can only use their improved Grab ability with their bite attack. The version I have is from !8 March 2002 - and its a PDF file. Been having problems with the WotC server as of late...
 

jontherev said:

...That is, unless your DM agrees with the Sage's ruling that you can only make one AoO per foe per round.....

Umm, you can only make one AoO per foe/round. It is in the PH. Will edit in chapter and verse when I get home (at work now).


Greythax



Ok, page 80, last line on the page: "You still only make one attack of oppertunity per enemy"
 
Last edited:

Ok, will try this again. Timeout ate my last post.

Here is my 2 cents.

Basically, A monsters CR is *supposed* to reflect feats like improved grab. If this ability worked like a normal grapple check and negated the grapple attempt on dealing damage, the monster would be *too easy for its CR*. Rather than have this happen, I think WotC went for a poorly worded compromise. The feat should have said something along the lines of;

"Damage from attacks of oppertunity do not cancel the improved grab as they do a normal grapple attempt, but you may add your damage to the grapple check against the improved grab."

Forgive the brevity of this post, the last one was slightly more eloquent, but I can't bring myself to type it over again :)

Greythax
 

Greythax. The next time you get a timeout, just hit the BACK button in your browser. For me, I always get the post entry page and I can just submit it again, or copy the text in case something worse happens.
 


Remove ads

Top