Combat Expertise thingies.

[Joker]

Twelve years of writing and that's the best title I could come up with. Sigh.

I had a couple of questions about Combat Expertise and how it relates to Fighting Defensively.

There are several abilities that give you a bonus to AC when Fighting Defensively (five ranks in Tumble, Thief-Acrobat ability, Two-Weapon Defense etc.). Does this mean that you gain the same bonus when using the Combat Expertise feat?

I.e. Does someone get an extra point to AC when using CE if he has five ranks in tumble? Or does he get the Agile Fighting bonus when using CE?

Sincerely Pink Flying Deathmonkey

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The two (CE and Fighting Defensively) are separate options that a character may take. One who is Fighting Defensively is not necessarily using CE, not vice versa.

However, you may combine them - use CE and FD.

So, in summation, no, somehting that gives a bonus when using FD doesn't give a bonus when using CE. Certain abilities (especially in Complete Adventurer), however, will say something like, "When Fighting Defensively or using CE for at least -2 / +2, etc. ..."

 

[Joker]

COMBAT EXPERTISE [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Int 13.
Benefit: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as –5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.
Normal: A character without the Combat Expertise feat can fight defensively while using the attack or full attack action to take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.
Special: A fighter may select Combat Expertise as one of his fighter bonus feats.

The way I see this is that Combat Expertise is a more advanced version of Fighting Defensively. That if an ability or skill gave you bonus to the lesser version it would give you the bonus on the one you are better trained in.

 

[Caliban]

The way I see this is that Combat Expertise is a more advanced version of Fighting Defensively. That if an ability or skill gave you bonus to the lesser version it would give you the bonus on the one you are better trained in.

Except that by the rules, it's not. It's a seperate option and you can do both at the same time.

 

[magic_gathering2001]

The way I see this is that Combat Expertise is a more advanced version of Fighting Defensively. That if an ability or skill gave you bonus to the lesser version it would give you the bonus on the one you are better trained in.

Then why would a dervish a class with combat expertise as a prerequisite give a bonus to fighting defensively

 

[Scion]

Then why would a dervish a class with combat expertise as a prerequisite give a bonus to fighting defensively

not that I dont agree that they are two seperate things and can be used together, but another question popped into my head with relation to this, 'why then would the exotic weapon master allow the extra bonus to power attack while weilding a weapon in two hands?' or 'why would the master of the unseen hand grant the ability to fling upward if it was already allowed by the raw?' lol.. just showing that sometimes examples of class abilities dont always help

 

[coyote6]

Then why would a dervish a class with combat expertise as a prerequisite give a bonus to fighting defensively

Because Combat Expertise + fighting defensively boosted by Tumble synergy & special ability = big AC bonus. The dervish that was formally in my campaign commonly boosted his AC into the "Well, if the villains hit, they're probably going to threaten a critical, too" range.

 

[Taren Seeker]

Check out Complete Adventurer to see a few options where you can substitute using 2 points of Expertise for fighting defensively. The Broad Blade Shortsword for one.

I have no problem with fighting def. and CE stacking, and by the RAW they do, but I like that there are feats and such that treat them the same. I'll use the rules in CA to extend to abilities/feats in other books.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Because Combat Expertise + fighting defensively boosted by Tumble synergy & special ability = big AC bonus.

Exactly.

I'm currently playing a Fighter / Rogue who can, if he chooses, get the best AC in the party.

He takes a -9 penalty to his attacks (-4 FD, -5 CE), but gains +8 Dodge to AC (+3 FD, +5 CE).

 

[ARandomGod]

Exactly.

I'm currently playing a Fighter / Rogue who can, if he chooses, get the best AC in the party.

He takes a -9 penalty to his attacks (-4 FD, -5 CE), but gains +8 Dodge to AC (+3 FD, +5 CE).

Now also carry a tower shield... which is similiar to fighting defensively, and stacks.