D&D 5E concentration in 5th edition, whats my fix?

[Swarmkeeper]

Double post

I'm just waiting for the natural follow-up thread to complete the trifecta:

[5E] concentration in 5th edition, whats their fix?

 

[DevonDs101]

I think a very important question to ask is ff you change the concentration rules for casters, what other changes are you going to make to keep a sense of balance for non casters. I personally love the concentration rules as a way of helping keep the game balanced
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[Krachek]

In the other thread, none of the poll option were really workable, and then the the thread become just a "lets pat on each other's backs for running the game as written" thing.

So I started a new thread to give my reply.

First off, I am not changing the rule. Not really. The rule is still there.

Just opening up the possibility to find exceptions to the rule.

The key is to not create any generic exceptions - where the spellcaster can choose himself which spells to not-concentrate on - that's WAY too overpowered.

Instead the observation is that there are A LOT of mediocre or even outright shoddy magic items and spells in the game.

And that many of these would become interesting or outright desirable if the concentration requirement were waivered.

THOSE effects are what you want to add to your game.

For instance, an uncommon item could be found in a very rare alternative form but with no Concentration.

Or you could find a scroll with a spell every guide says is red or pink... and in this version it doesn't require Concentration. The spell maybe doesn't become gold or sky blue, but might still be used on occasion by that character.

Or a high-level NPC spellcaster could "cheat" and cast a certain spell even though her tactics depend on using another concentration spell at the same time.

Magic item is a very elegant way to do local play test.
You give an item that break some rules.
If you are not sure give a consumable or an item with a limited number of charges.
Then you observe.
If you are satisfied you can shift later to a rule change.
If not, the item could stay as an nice exception, the player will surely remberber it!

 

[Hussar]

Well, technically, there already are items in the game that do away with concentration so, it's not really that far fetched. Any "resistance" item is based on a concentration spell, for example. So, if it's okay to have a ring of warmth (for cold resistance), then would it really break the game if "Resist Energy" (sorry, forgot the exact name of the spell) was no longer concentration?

Never minding "plussed" items also ignore concentration. Magic Weapon is a concentration spell, but, if everyone in the party already has a magic weapon, it's a spell that goes obsolete pretty quickly.

Or, the various wands as well. You can get Wands of Web and Wands of Entangle, so, would it kill the game to make those non-concentration spells? Probably not.

So, yeah, if you wanted to test out different spells, make them a magic item and test away.

 

[Krachek]

For example:
Pearls of arcane focus.
You keep these pearls in your component pouch an may consume one when you cast a concentration spell.
The pearl allow you to keep concentration on two spells at the time.
If you cast a third concentration spell it will cancel the two first one.
Pearls usually come in set of five.

 

[CapnZapp]

Spells are so different from each other. To generalize concentration by spell level doesnt work.

The approach of this thread, to spot check each spell to see if it really requires concentration, seems the best way to go.

Yep.

As I said any general approach won't work.

Either the player cherry-picks the best options and it becomes too good, or the cost to waive concentration must be set so high only the very best options become viable, and all the other ones remain subpar.

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[CapnZapp]

I think a very important question to ask is ff you change the concentration rules for casters, what other changes are you going to make to keep a sense of balance for non casters. I personally love the concentration rules as a way of helping keep the game balanced
.

No, the aim isn't to make casters strictly better. The aim is increase variety by removing concentration from otherwise poor to bad choices.

Concentration as a general rule is fine.

The assumption of the thread is that you believe they went overboard with adding concentration to too many spells.

That and the belief that Archmage NPCs should be able to bend the rules.

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[CapnZapp]

Well, technically, there already are items in the game that do away with concentration so, it's not really that far fetched. Any "resistance" item is based on a concentration spell, for example. So, if it's okay to have a ring of warmth (for cold resistance), then would it really break the game if "Resist Energy" (sorry, forgot the exact name of the spell) was no longer concentration?

Never minding "plussed" items also ignore concentration. Magic Weapon is a concentration spell, but, if everyone in the party already has a magic weapon, it's a spell that goes obsolete pretty quickly.

Or, the various wands as well. You can get Wands of Web and Wands of Entangle, so, would it kill the game to make those non-concentration spells? Probably not.

So, yeah, if you wanted to test out different spells, make them a magic item and test away.

I think you're aware, but just to spell it out:

"So, if it's okay to have a ring of warmth (for cold resistance), then would it really break the game if "Resist Energy" (sorry, forgot the exact name of the spell) was no longer concentration?"

Yes, probably. Why? Because while you can control access to a magic item you can't control access to a spell.

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[CapnZapp]

For example:
Pearls of arcane focus.
You keep these pearls in your component pouch an may consume one when you cast a concentration spell.
The pearl allow you to keep concentration on two spells at the time.
If you cast a third concentration spell it will cancel the two first one.
Pearls usually come in set of five.

This generic approach is much too open-ended to work for me.

The solution must be to seed your game with specific spells and items, that only remove Concentration from individual spells,not choosable by the player.

Some spells would be outright broken without Concentration.

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[Evenglare]

I know you said no generic concentrations, but honestly im not a super big fan of adding additional subsystems to the game, I'll give my proposal but its probably not what you're looking for.

My mind instantly jumps into one way that would require essentially nothing, IMO concentration should work in tiers, Tier 1-5? One spell can be concentrated on, 6-10; 2 spells, 11-15 ; 3 spells etc. Just seems like the easiest way of going about it. I guess another option would be to treat an additional concentration as a feat or something. Also you could use hit dice as a resource for extra concentrations simulating the toll its taking on your body to concentrate on 2 spells, or whatever. You could also tweak it saying that only the spell levels of particular tiers can be concentrated on. So essentially you'd have a concentration for the spells you get from 1-5, then an additional concentration for 6-10 etc. This would prevent like multiple concentrations on high level spells.

/shrug thats my input.

This system would take essentially no time to implement.