D&D 5E concentration in 5th edition, whats my fix?

How about examples of concentration spells of the same level that you would avoid preparing together?

I would point out that when you chose to learn haste (3rd level spell), you already had flaming sphere (2nd lvl) and presumably had used it as a level 3 and 4 character. However, lots of lower level spells get shelved daily - and not simply due to the concentration mechanic - as you gain access to higher level spells (i.e. Burning hands gets replaced by flaming sphere gets usurped by fireball etc...) and when your attack cantrips gain extra damage (level 5, 11...).
Well this one was specifically shelved because of the concentration mechanic. It doesn't matter about the level it matters about the circumstances of use. If one concentration effect is my "go to" spell in combat, I'm less likely to pick another concentration effect that will conflict with it.

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I think you're aware, but just to spell it out:

"So, if it's okay to have a ring of warmth (for cold resistance), then would it really break the game if "Resist Energy" (sorry, forgot the exact name of the spell) was no longer concentration?"

Yes, probably. Why? Because while you can control access to a magic item you can't control access to a spell.

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MIssing the point.

If we have magic items that emulate concentration spells, and they don't break the game, then removing the concentration requirement for those same spells probably won't make a huge difference either.
 

I just thought of this;

Have an enchantment for an Arcane Focus, Holy Symbol (or equivalent) which requires attunement but allows a single spell cast with it to have it's Concentration requirement waived as long as the focus is in the caster's possession. Item has 1 (Rare), 2 (Very Rare) or 3 (Legendary) charges per day, and Concentration could still be broken by a disarm.

Balanced I would say...
 

The concentration mechanics are a clumsy fix to perceived problem, which could have been handled more elegantly. WOTC already reduced slots for high level casters. If there is a problem with too much stacking, just state that a target can only have one or two on going spells on her. Skip the concentration or 10 minutes spells, and just say "one encounter." If it's a non combat spell pick a reasonable amount of time. If a spell seems too tough to last a whole encounter then there's a problem with the spell.

Personally, I find the whole spell section feels rushed and in need of another editing pass.
This ignores the intense pushback those solutions would get.

Some (Not all, some) players hate encounter or story based timekeeping with unholy intensity. Its not worth it.

Placing the limit on the person is a similar "artificial" limitation that could get people up in arms. (Never mind that magic isn't supposed to make logical or scientific sense...)

In the end the spellcasting rules of 5E might not be perfect but they certainly are the best edition yet.

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Ok, let's take this exercise one step further since the OP punted to the internets and their color coding system of character optimization. :)

Here's a list of 1st level Wizard Spells that require concentration:

Cause Fear
Detect Magic (Ritual)
Expeditious Retreat
Fog Cloud
Protection from Evil and Good
Silent Image
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Witch Bolt

I think one can reasonably argue why concentration is required for any of these. I suppose that's what WoTC did when coming up with the spells in the first place. I also can see someone arguing the other way for, say, Expeditious Retreat. The character is going to be out of range for many other concentration spells anyway (one might argue), so what does it matter if we stripped concentration from ER?

All that said, I'm going to guess that most players who are playing a spellcaster pick spells based on damage, flavor, utility, and/or just a feeling that a particular spell would be cool. I'm kinda skeptical that concentration plays any role, let alone a big one, in spell selection at most tables. Of course, if you are inclined to tinker with rules and feel this one is worth your time and will raise the fun a notch or two - go for it.
Sure, but after reasoning that Concentration is needed there needed to be another design step:

Okay, given Concentration, will anyone use these spells?

This step seems to have been executed weakly for some spells.

In short: if you're uncertain about Concentration, yes, keeping it is the safe and sensible option. But it also indicates the spell needs more design: either make it more or less powerful. More, so it earns the Concentration slot. Less, so we can drop the requirement.

In the end there are still way too many spells never or rarely used. Even if you account for groupthink, there's always a few best choices at each level.

I would personally love if WotC made another pass at existing spells before giving us new ones. Yes, I realize they will not do that and break compatability just to appeal to my sense of perfection...

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Here's what I use. It makes multiple concentration feasible in desperate circumstances, but not a go-to move.

Experienced casters can potentially concentrate on multiple spells at the same time, though doing so is difficult and never certain. If you cast a concentration spell while already concentrating on a spell, you immediately suffer a – 5 penalty (cumulative, if concentrating on three or more spells) to your Concentration saving throws. Additionally, you must immediately make a concentration save for each spell except the one you are casting (with the penalty) or lose concentration on that spell.

For example, Bob is concentrating on a Bless spell, but wants to cast Spiritual Guardians. Upon casting Spiritual Guardians, he must make a DC 10 Concentration save for Bless at a – 5 penalty. If he succeeds, he manages to concentrate on both Bless and Spiritual Guardians. If he fails, he loses concentration on Bless but maintains it on Spiritual Guardians.
As long as you understand that veteran gamers will use this system with at least +10 and advantage on their Concentration save, sure.

I mean your players might not be that driven, and then the system might work for your table. But if you think it's a good idea for general use, I mean.

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MIssing the point.

If we have magic items that emulate concentration spells, and they don't break the game, then removing the concentration requirement for those same spells probably won't make a huge difference either.
No, you're missing mine [emoji4]

The fact the DM can hand out items that let you do a combo is a poor argument to allow it by default.

The point is about DM control. Even the most broken item in the world is no balance problem as long as you never find one (=the DM never gives it to you).

But every spell in the PHB is open to player selection (at least in my game). The DM is not supposed to have to screen individual spells before allowing a player to pick them.

This means that a combo is okay as a magic item even if slightly unbalanced since any DM that objects to it can keep it out of his or her game, while that is not the case for spells (at least not those in the PHB).

I hope I managed to explain my point better this time.

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I just thought of this;

Have an enchantment for an Arcane Focus, Holy Symbol (or equivalent) which requires attunement but allows a single spell cast with it to have it's Concentration requirement waived as long as the focus is in the caster's possession. Item has 1 (Rare), 2 (Very Rare) or 3 (Legendary) charges per day, and Concentration could still be broken by a disarm.

Balanced I would say...
If you mean that each such item is keyed to a specific spell, then yes, I agree.

(It may be hugely unbalanced, but there are already hugely attractive magic items. In the end, if an item breaks your campaign don't feature it in your campaign)

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Do you have specific examples of spells from your spellbook you would never prepare at the same time because they are both concentration spells from the same level? Or examples of two concentration spells you would only ever select one of when leveling up?
Level 2 spells for sorcerer or wizard:

Alter Self
Detect Thoughts
Enhance Ability
Invisibility
Suggestion
Spider Climb

A large variety of infiltration/social interaction scenarios would want to be able to use more than one of those spells at the same time. Sometimes you might be able to get away with recasting the lost spell (and feel like it's a waste of a spell slot), but other times not (particularly when using Alter Self or Invisibility). Mostly, though, you ditch the extra spells. If you do prepare them (as a wizard), it's for a different intended uses. As a sorcerer, you only pick one or two of the most useful, because you'll never be able to combine them anyway.


I see five basic purposes for concentration:

1) The spell can be manipulated and changed over the course of its duration. Concentration represents the focus needed to be able to tweak it from time to time, rather than leave it in a 'fixed' state. An example of this would be Alter Self.

2) The spell is theoretically manifesting magical power that must be continually maintained. This would be most common with conjuration spells (why are most wall spells Evocation instead of Conjuration?). An example of this would be Fog Cloud, but True Strike is likely also in this set.

3) For game balance reasons, the devs don't want you to cast the same spell over and over again. This is likely the case for buffs like Haste.

4) For game balance reasons, the devs don't want you to cast this spell together with various other spells that, together, lead to an overpowered character or party. An example of this would be Fly + Greater Invisibility + Stoneskin + Whirlwind + etc.

5) (Edited addition) Make it possible for someone to interrupt your concentration to end the spell. This is almost exclusively within the realm of spells maintained during combat. It's the only way to end buffs, whereas debuffs can generally be ended if you make a successful save. Being able to do this to the enemy can be important.


So 1 and 2 are thematic reasons, while 3 and 4 are game balance reasons.

We also have one other mechanic that fulfills a similar purpose to #3, as seen in the Light spell: This spell ends if you cast it again.

So spells where you don't want multiple instances of it being cast, just add a termination clause. On superficial review, I'd apply this condition to all concentration cantrips — Create Bonfire, Dancing Lights, Friends, Guidance, Resistance, True Strike.

Of those, most seem to be type 3, so just add a termination clause to prevent spamming them. Only Dancing Lights fits type 1, and it's not much different than Control Flames (which can alter flames for a 1 hour duration, rather than 1 minute) or Mage Hand (which also has a 1 minute duration, but no concentration requirement).


Another potential mechanic that could be added is to change it so that, when you cast a new concentration spell, any previous concentration spells you were maintaining are just suppressed instead of terminated. That way you can have something like Hunter's Mark, which lasts an hour, and not lose it because you wanted to cast something like Ensnaring Strike or Zephyr Strike. You just don't get the benefits of Hunter's Mark while you're maintaining the other spell, but you don't waste the spell slot from the original cast, either.

That's more bookkeeping, though, so it may have been avoided to keep things simpler.



The number of concentration spells goes up dramatically once you get into leveled spells, so it's a lot harder to judge them. But I can throw in a few things that seem likely.

I would probably just add a termination clause to Haste, since it seems to be a type 3.

Bane and Bless seem to be concentration to explicitly counter each other. Bane would also be a nice combo with any spells that require saving throws, but is it more overpowered to combine it with Slow than with Fireball? I would probably combine Bane and Bless into a single spell, and you have to choose the effect when you cast it. Then just add a termination clause. There's still a slight justification for concentration, but it would take more time to figure out if it's truly needed.

Pretty much any damaging spell that uses concentration should keep it. Allowing multiple maintained damage regions quickly scales the mage's damage potential way too high.

You shouldn't be able to stack defensive buffs (Fly, Invisibility, Stoneskin, etc), but at the same time, concentration feels like overkill. Why does Warding Wind lock out the ability to use Slow or Sleet Storm or Fog Cloud or whatever? Unfortunately, there's no simple way to say, "You can't have more than one of [these] spells active at a time" separate from the concentration mechanic.

Maybe, "You can't cast more than one buff on any one person."? But then you can have one mage with Warding Wind on himself, Haste on the barbarian, Bless on the thief, Fly on the Cleric, Invisibility on the bard, and still able to cast Slow on the enemy. (And does Mage Armor now count? Whoops!) Of course he's burning through spell slots, and it would take forever to get all that in place — which just leads to the prep-stage, before-battle casting from earlier editions that was such a headache and time-eater. Probably easier just to keep the concentration mechanic.


Anyway, that reduces the number of concentration spells to examine, but the ones that are left are still difficult to judge. Detect Evil and Good? Detect Magic? Detect Poison and Disease? Expeditious Retreat? Fog Cloud? Alter Self? Barkskin? Calm Emotions? Enhance Ability? Locate Object?

It's easy to see why these were set as concentration spells, based on the above categories, but do they need to be concentration? Must they fundamentally not be cast at the same time as each other, or with other spells? Would a termination clause be sufficient to limit excessive use?

I'm kinda thinking a termination clause would work for most of them, and other similar spells. But any mechanic outside of termination and concentration seems to quickly run into untenable problems, or become too complicated to mesh with the system design.
 
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As long as you understand that veteran gamers will use this system with at least +10 and advantage on their Concentration save, sure.

I mean your players might not be that driven, and then the system might work for your table. But if you think it's a good idea for general use, I mean.

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I think you mean driven to try to break the system? We abandoned that style of play around the time we stopped playing 3rd edition. My players are plenty driven. One of them started a successful smithy and is now working on a share cropping business plan (though this was admittedly in another player's campaign since I'm not running ATM). He cultivated the NPC relationships to do this himself (he could have said to the DM, "I want to plop down X to go and start a business", but he instead chose to RP the process). That's the definition of drive at the table to me, not seeing what combination of feats allows you to squeak that extra + 1 that the system never intended for you to have in your haberdashery skill. As to being veteran players, does 20+ years of gaming weekly for 6 to 8 hours make us veteran enough for you? Experience across at a minimum of four editions of D&D, not counting other systems?

That said, let's look at the numbers. You didn't break it down for me, so I'm going to have to make a few guesses as to how you arrived at them. I'm presuming a level 16+ character (+6 proficiency bonus) with proficiency in Constitution (requiring the Resilient feat for most classes), the Warcaster feat (advantage), 14 Constitution, and constant Bless? Or is a paladin involved?

Even with a +10 and advantage, my system isn't a gimmie. Rolling lower than a 5 with advantage happens all the time at my table. The odds are certainly in your favor, but losing spells is costly (both in terms of resources and, potentially, in terms of the tide of battle). If you feel that it's too generous (and in terms of the initial casting it is, since there's no reason to not use this rule if you were going to drop a concentration spell to cast a new one) have the upfront save apply to the spell that is being cast as well. Now there is a very serious risk when using it (lose both spells) even when the odds are in your favor. You could also make the initial roll a spell casting ability check (rather than a concentration save), to make it harder for the players to consolidate their bonuses.
 

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