In the thread on Weak Saving Throws, there is a lot of concern about fighters getting hit by big spells they have little chance of resisting.
The maincounterpoint is concentration, a lot of spells seem easy to lose once the spellcaster takes a hit.
How easy? Lets do the math!
We enter our new Stalwart Exemplar, Nymradon the Human Cleric. I will make him a battle like cleric, who is going into melee. Statwise for low levels we will give him:
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 9, Wis 15, Cha 11
He will have a half plate and shield, combined with his Dex +1 for an AC of 18. His Concentration Check is +2.
He will be facing our eternal cohort Cuthgar the Fighter. Early levels Cuthgar will be sporting the usual 16 str, +2 prof, Longsword with Dueling Style.
Now...the key with concentration checks is, until you are doing 22 damage or more, its all DC 10 checks. And...for fighters that is actually the vast vast majority of their careers! So its all about the to hit, not the damage.
The attack is +5 vs AC 18, and then a +2 Concentration Check vs DC 10.
Chance to Keep Spell (1 round): 86%
Chance to Keep Spell (4 rounds): 55%
Bonus Info, Chance to Keep Spell (1 round - TWF): 74%
Bonus Info, Chance to Keep Spell (4 rounds - TWF): 30%
Conclusion: Keeping concentration for a whole fight is really tough, basically a coin flip if you are fighting just one person. Further, its interesting to note that TWF is much stronger at breaking concentration...because hitting, not damaging is what is important (only the greataxe, on a crit, with a high damage roll can do enough damage to provoke anything but a DC 10 concentration check). Even GWF might consider keeping a pair of shortswords or daggers around to mess with an enemy spellcaster.
Lets take it to 20th. Level Cuthgar now has Str +5, Prof: +6. I am going to be kind and give Nymradon a 14 dex and a 16 con. That is being a little bit generous I think, strength and wisdom are important stats to a battlecleric, expecting them to raise both dex and con maybe too much. But lets just see what it looks like.
Attack + 11 vs AC 19. +3 concentration check.
Even at this level, Cuthgar would have to get a crit AND roll a 15 or 16 on his 2d8 damage roll to actually provoke a DC 11 concentration check. The chance is so low I'm not even going to factor it in (less than 1%), its DC 10 all the way for spellcasters fighting longsword fighters.
Chance to Keep Spell (1 attack): 80.5%
Chance to Keep Spell (1 round - 4 attacks): 42%
Chance to Keep Spell (4 rounds - 16 attacks): 3%
Conclusion: For high level combat, if the spellcaster is getting into melee with a fighter, he should just assume his concentration spells will last him a round at most.
The maincounterpoint is concentration, a lot of spells seem easy to lose once the spellcaster takes a hit.
How easy? Lets do the math!
We enter our new Stalwart Exemplar, Nymradon the Human Cleric. I will make him a battle like cleric, who is going into melee. Statwise for low levels we will give him:
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 9, Wis 15, Cha 11
He will have a half plate and shield, combined with his Dex +1 for an AC of 18. His Concentration Check is +2.
He will be facing our eternal cohort Cuthgar the Fighter. Early levels Cuthgar will be sporting the usual 16 str, +2 prof, Longsword with Dueling Style.
Now...the key with concentration checks is, until you are doing 22 damage or more, its all DC 10 checks. And...for fighters that is actually the vast vast majority of their careers! So its all about the to hit, not the damage.
The attack is +5 vs AC 18, and then a +2 Concentration Check vs DC 10.
Chance to Keep Spell (1 round): 86%
Chance to Keep Spell (4 rounds): 55%
Bonus Info, Chance to Keep Spell (1 round - TWF): 74%
Bonus Info, Chance to Keep Spell (4 rounds - TWF): 30%
Conclusion: Keeping concentration for a whole fight is really tough, basically a coin flip if you are fighting just one person. Further, its interesting to note that TWF is much stronger at breaking concentration...because hitting, not damaging is what is important (only the greataxe, on a crit, with a high damage roll can do enough damage to provoke anything but a DC 10 concentration check). Even GWF might consider keeping a pair of shortswords or daggers around to mess with an enemy spellcaster.
Lets take it to 20th. Level Cuthgar now has Str +5, Prof: +6. I am going to be kind and give Nymradon a 14 dex and a 16 con. That is being a little bit generous I think, strength and wisdom are important stats to a battlecleric, expecting them to raise both dex and con maybe too much. But lets just see what it looks like.
Attack + 11 vs AC 19. +3 concentration check.
Even at this level, Cuthgar would have to get a crit AND roll a 15 or 16 on his 2d8 damage roll to actually provoke a DC 11 concentration check. The chance is so low I'm not even going to factor it in (less than 1%), its DC 10 all the way for spellcasters fighting longsword fighters.
Chance to Keep Spell (1 attack): 80.5%
Chance to Keep Spell (1 round - 4 attacks): 42%
Chance to Keep Spell (4 rounds - 16 attacks): 3%
Conclusion: For high level combat, if the spellcaster is getting into melee with a fighter, he should just assume his concentration spells will last him a round at most.
