D&D 5E Concentration while Short Resting

[AaronOfBarbaria]

What is the point of having a rule that has no bearing on what's happening in the game?

There is a difference between a rule having bearing on what's happening in the game play, and a rule having bearing on what's happening in the game world. Rules have to do the former, but frequently don't actually do that latter, and that is a normal part of the role-playing game process.

(Emphasis added.) If the case of chaining a long and a short rest together, with the short rest first, this is problem you've created whole-cloth with your interpretation. If instead you interpret the 1st hour of a long rest as being a short rest (assuming you meet the requirements for both), the problem disappears.

No, I don't think the problem - which is that real people, and thus characters, don't think of spending an hour watching TV, going to the bathroom, then spending an hour watching TV as something distinctly different from "I watched TV for 2 hours." - is created by my interpretation.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Well, in Aaron's world...

Everything after this point of your post is a fiction that you made up, and not in any way actually representative of how things work at my table, or even how I have explained things on this forum.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

It should be easy enough for Warlocks to take advantage of multiple rests in Aarons game as well. Have a long rest, cook a hexed chicken for breakfast and then go on a 70 minute morning run. After the run it's time to have a shower and chill for an hour or so, then you're ready and still with plenty of time for adventuring left in the day.

 

[FrogReaver]

This thread is just further evidence of why all lawyers are spawn of Satan.

I never thought the rest rules were that hard or complicated until I came to this thread and read all the rules lawyers.

All other opinions aside for the moment. The PHB specifies certain things about a short rest and has some pretty clear omissions.

Short Rest

1. A short rest has no maximum duration. Minimum Time required is one hour. Maximum time could be days or weeks or months or years.
2. A short rest has no explicit defined end, however doing something more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading or tending to wounds would logically end the short rest.
4. A short rest doesn't have a definite beginning( ie. it is declared as a period of time)

Long Rest
1. A long rest has no maximum duration. Minimum Time required is 8 hours. Maximum time could be days or weeks or months or years.
2. A long rest has no defined end. (It can be interrupted and require a restart. Otherwise it would appear the DM must decide when it ends).
3. A long rest requires doing nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading or tending to wounds or standing watch more than 2 hours
4. A long rest can be interrupted by adventuring activity. If shorter than an hour you can continue your rest. If longer than an hour you must begin the rest again.

Conclusion:
Resting sometimes requires DM rulings about what when a rest ends. Otherwise you run into the problem that ArialBlack mentioned where the only defined time in the rules we know we aren't long resting is after at least 1 hour of adventuring activity which would put us at getting our long rest benefits an hour later than when we woke up and broke camp.

In general if a player meets the requirements of a long rest he will meet the requirements of a short rest as defined in the book. However, see the above comment about the DM determining when the rest ends (ie when you gain the benefits of the rest).

Is there any rule that may prevent the below example?

So for example say that a player declares he is going to long rest. Suppose he is a elf warlock/cleric and isn't keeping watch at all tonight. After the first hour of the long rest he has met all the requirements of a short rest. He then casts cure wounds with a warlock slot. The long rest is interrupted but not broken. However, the short rest ends. He then continues his long rest for another hour and does the same thing. Near the end of the night he trances for 4 hours.

The only rule that may prevent the simultaneous use of short and long rests says: "adventures can take short rests in the midst of an adventuring day and a long rest to end the day." PHB 186

 

[FrogReaver]

As for the question of this thread, if one can rest while concentrating on a spell then the rest will not prevent the concentration.
PHB 203 "normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn't interfere with concentration"

Can one rest while concentrating on a spell? The book isn't explicit. So expect table variation. Some useful quotes below:
PHB 186 "They need rest-time to sleep and eat, tend their wounds, refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting, and brace themselves for further adventure".

If the purpose of a rest is to "refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting" then there definitely can be a case made that concentrating on a spell would interfere with refreshing your mind and spirit for spellcasting.

It's not the only argument, but without considering balance and the long durations on some concentration spells and solely relying on the resting text this may be the best interpretation, but certainly not the only one or my preferred one.

 

[MrHotter]

As for the question of this thread, if one can rest while concentrating on a spell then the rest will not prevent the concentration.
PHB 203 "normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn't interfere with concentration"

Can one rest while concentrating on a spell? The book isn't explicit. So expect table variation. Some useful quotes below:
PHB 186 "They need rest-time to sleep and eat, tend their wounds, refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting, and brace themselves for further adventure".

If the purpose of a rest is to "refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting" then there definitely can be a case made that concentrating on a spell would interfere with refreshing your mind and spirit for spellcasting.

It's not the only argument, but without considering balance and the long durations on some concentration spells and solely relying on the resting text this may be the best interpretation, but certainly not the only one or my preferred one.

I had not noticed the 'refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting' part before.

I think it would be reasonable for a DM to rule that concentrating on a spell would keep a player from getting the benefits of a short rest. It could at least be reasonable to not give back the spell slot being used for the concentration spell.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I had not noticed the 'refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting' part before.

I think it would be reasonable for a DM to rule that concentrating on a spell would keep a player from getting the benefits of a short rest. It could at least be reasonable to not give back the spell slot being used for the concentration spell.

It doesn't say that in my PH. Nor does it say it in the October 2016 PH Errata.

 

[MrHotter]

It doesn't say that in my PH. Nor does it say it in the October 2016 PH Errata.

It's on page 186 of the PH under Resting.

 

[Arial Black]

There is a difference between a rule having bearing on what's happening in the game play, and a rule having bearing on what's happening in the game world. Rules have to do the former, but frequently don't actually do that latter, and that is a normal part of the role-playing game process.

We know for a fact that the player's decision to have his PC take a rest must be paralleled by the character resting/avoiding stressful activity. The character knows that resting refreshes his abilities, even if he doesn't know the game mechanics of 5E.

They definitely are connected.

No, I don't think the problem - which is that real people, and thus characters, don't think of spending an hour watching TV, going to the bathroom, then spending an hour watching TV as something distinctly different from "I watched TV for 2 hours." - is created by my interpretation.

This is a poor analogy for what is happening in the game. It is not 'long rest followed by a short rest with no gap in-between', as some have suggested. It is a long rest, followed by stressful activity which tires you out, followed by a short rest to recover from that new fatigue.

A better analogy would be: watch TV for an hour -> do 300 sit-ups -> watch TV for another hour while recovering from all those sit-ups.

Now, back to the question you avoided: after 8 hours rest, we ask the DM, "Have we had the benefits of a long rest yet? Are we fully healed? Can we cast spells again? Are our spell slots/superiority dice/ki points back?"

You're the DM, Aaron. The answer is either 'yes' or 'no'. The answer cannot be, "It depends on what you want to do next". The body doesn't wait to heal until it gets a glimpse of the person's future intentions; it just heals over time. The state of a body is either 'wounded' or 'un-wounded'. It can never be in some quantum uncertainty where it simultaneously is AND isn't wounded, and where it only collapses into one state or another depending on what the PCs intend to do in the near future!

Your answer to the question (have we benefited from the rest yet?) is what we base our next decisions on! Not the other way around. You are reversing 'cause' and 'effect'. Your game world breaks it's own laws, just to mess with PCs!

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

They definitely are connected.

You've not understood what I wrote if you you think I said they aren't connect in any way. I've only said that they don't need to be connected in the specific way you insist they are.

This is a poor analogy for what is happening in the game. It is not 'long rest followed by a short rest with no gap in-between', as some have suggested. It is a long rest, followed by stressful activity which tires you out, followed by a short rest to recover from that new fatigue.

A better analogy would be: watch TV for an hour -> do 300 sit-ups -> watch TV for another hour while recovering from all those sit-ups.

I think your analogy is even less accurate than mine is, since "do 300 sit-ups" is not a thing which can be done without interrupting a person's rest, like casting a single spell can be cast without interrupting a long rest.

Now, back to the question you avoided: after 8 hours rest, we ask the DM, "Have we had the benefits of a long rest yet? Are we fully healed? Can we cast spells again? Are our spell slots/superiority dice/ki points back?"

I've not avoided that question. I thought I was clear when I dismissed that question as not being one that actually gets asked. Specifically because the players don't say they rest and then later, or even immediately next, ask "Did we finish resting yet?" - the players say "We take a [insert 'long rest' or 'short rest' here]." and I then tell if anything that will or might interrupt that rest happens, or that they have finished resting, and I ask "What will you do now?"

You're the DM, Aaron. The answer is either 'yes' or 'no'. The answer cannot be, "It depends on what you want to do next".

It isn't. You are clearly confused.

The conversation (which, again, has never even come up at my table because my players have never thought to state "I cast [insert spell] and then we take a short rest." as their answer to my above end-of-rest question) in which I use the player's intention of what they do next as a means to define what they are already doing is one that goes like this:

Players: "We take a long rest."
DM: "No meaningful interruptions happen. Your long rest is complete. What will you do now?"
Warlock Player: "I cast hex, then we take a short rest."
DM: "That's not how resting works. Because rests are not a specific length in time, they don't end in such a way that you can end one successfully and immediately start another - that is, instead, simply the same rest being longer before it ends."

Your game world breaks it's own laws, just to mess with PCs!

No, it doesn't. The laws of the game world are still that resting for enough time - a variable amount of time, not a finite amount - allows recuperation.