Concerning Swordmage powers and properties/effects of weapons

[inati]

So in one of the modules I was running through, my Swordmage picked up a +1 Lightning Weapon. I was pretty stoked by this, but it did bring a question of how this will work in game with my Swordmage's spells, both weapon powers and implement powers.

The rules for swordmages reads as:

Implements: Any light blade or heavy blade. Your blade adds its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls and any extra damage granted by a property (if applicable) when used as an implement. You do not gain your weapon proficiency bonus to the attack roll when using your blade as an implement. (FRPG pg24)

This seems pretty straightforward: You can use weapons as implements and gain bonuses and any extra damage properties from weapons.

The rules for something like a lightning weapon states:

Weapon: Any
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 lightning damage per plus
Power (At-Will ✦Lightning): Free Action. All damage dealt by this weapon is lightning damage. Another free action returns the damage to normal.
Power (Daily ✦ Lightning): Free Action. Use this power when you hit with the weapon. The target and each enemy within 2 squares of the target take 1d6 lightning damage. (PHB 235)

This is also straightforward, you can turn all damage dealt into lightning damage.

With these two points in mind, how do these two rules interact with each other? If I were to use Greenflame Blade (FRPG pg27), for example, which has the weapon keyword, would the damage from my attack spell change from Fire to Lightning? Would it instead be a Greenbolt Blade attack instead and the plume of fire that hits all enemies adjacent to the target would also be lightning damage?

Since this power has the weapon keyword, I would argue all damage produced by the attack can be converted into lightning damage, as per the rules of the Lightning weapon. What this essentially does for the swordmage is change the attack type from something that is more commonly resisted (fire) to something more damage friendly (lightning). As you can imagine, any weapon which causes a change in damage type would be extremely useful for a Swordmage. Cold, Acid, Radiant, etc etc.

Now the more difficult question is, how does this effect swordmage powers that have the implement keyword? Let's say that I use the attack spell Sword Burst (FRPG pg 27), which has the keywords Implement and Force. Since I am channeling the power through the Lightning weapon, which is now acting as an implement according to swordmage rules, could I change the damage type to Lightning? Or, in other words, do spells that use the weapon as an implement gain the properties of the weapon as written in the rules of the weapon?

Although I can see the merits for both Yes and No answers, I would lean towards the Yes side. Why? Let's take a look at other weapon properties such as an Assassin's weapon (Adventurer's vault pg 67). For damage, it reads:

Critical: Ongoing 5 poison damage (save ends)

So, as per the rules, if I use the assassin's weapon as an implement and score a critical, I now attach the poison damage component, even though I never touched the person with the weapon. This is fairly easy to rule, as the rules state "any extra damage."

What about a Battlecrazed weapon (Adventurer's Vault pg 64)? The property reads:

Property: While you are bloodied, you deal +1d6 damage
when you hit with this weapon.

So do the rules of "any extra damage" mean that I would gain the +1d6 when bloodied? By my interpretation, I would take it as Yes.

So back to the Lightning weapon, would the weapon properties be transferred to the spell when it is used as an implement? I think it all hinges on the key phrase "any extra damage." I would argue yes, because changing the damage type is a form of extra damage property of the weapon. However, I can see how the answer would be No, because technically it didn't add any extra damage points to the attack.

What are people's thoughts on this and how would you rule? Should weapons that change damage type dealt also change damage type when it is used as an implement to channel spells?





P.S. - Disclaimer: I am interested in finding a good game balance to the mechanics of weapons used as implements, as I am certain that other classes in the future will be using weapons as implements as well. Please do not take this post to mean that I had an argument with my group already and that I am turning to enworld for help; we haven't even discussed nor mentioned the issue yet, and besides, I will abide with my group's consensus in the end anyways!

 

[Saben]

Weapons such as the Lightning Weapon don't CHANGE the keyword, they ADD it.

Greenflame Blade will now do Fire and Lightning typed damage. Read the 4e PHB Errata for more info, but basically that means enemies will only ever apply the lowest of their resistances to damage you deal to them.

For your main question, I'd rule "YES" as the short answer. The long answer is:

When using a weapon as an implement, look at the rules as if it were simply an implement. Imagine a "Lightning Wand" that had:

Power (At-Will ✦Lightning): Free Action. All damage dealt by this implement is lightning damage. Another free action returns the damage to normal.

If that power was on a wand it's pretty obvious what it does... In fact, the Sun Disk of Pelor does the same thing:

Power (At-Will Radiant): Free Action. All damage dealt by powers using this holy symbol is radiant damage. Another free action returns the damage to normal.

Since the weapon counts as an implement there is nothing to stop the Power working on implements. It explicitly says "all damage".

Does that mean elemental weapons end up quite powerful for Swordmages? (and even Wizards of the Spiral Tower) yeah, it does... But it seems to be working as intended- other classes have weapons that synergise quite well with their innate abilities, too.