Psionicist
Explorer
If one feat makes you good att two skills because they are related to each other, you are basically destroying the idea with synergy bonuses.
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Consolidating +2/+2 feats into one customizable feat?
- Thread starter haiiro
- Start date
Khorod
First Post
Psionicist said:
Synergy bonuses are gained because skill in one area actually improves your skill in another.
The idea of a feat granting bonuses to related skills is, imo, that the feat is granting you a bonus in the particular are of overlap. If you like, you could say its a way of putting skill ranks into the synergy bonus. It doesn't invalidate synergy, it emphasizes it.
For example, Politics is a part of War, Politics is a part of Nobility, so if Knowledge[politics] were left out of the skill list, it would be gained by granting a slight bonus to both those skills. This may not be too satisfying, but its part of the abstraction of the system.
I agree that it isn't a major issue in 3e, though.Spatzimaus
First Post
Okay, here's Crazy Spatz's Ultra-Adjustable Skill-Modifying Feat! (tm)
Note: this is something the DM does, NOT the player. It's more of a Feat Construction Engine.
STEP 1> Pick one skill, or two related skills.
STEP 2> If you took one skill, pick two of the following. If you picked two skills, choose one of the following to apply to both skills.
a> If it's a cross-class skill, it becomes a class skill. Note that "all Knowledge skills", "all Craft skills", and "all Profession skills" count as one skill for this purpose.
b> If it's often used under duress, you now have the ability to Take 10 even while distracted.
c> A straight +2 bonus
d> "If you roll a 5 or less on this skill check, you may re-roll; the final result stands" which adds, on average, 1.875
e> If it's an exclusive skill, it becomes cross-class.
STEP 3> Pick a name.
On one skill:
A + C is called "Cosmopolitan" or "Educated"
B + D is what I use for "Skill Focus"
and so on.
On two-skill Feats, pick an appropriate name. Listen/Spot C is "Alertness", for example.
Then, there's the Greater Crazy Spatz's Ultra-Adjustable Skill-Modifying Feat! (tm), which lets you pick two more and adds more options:
f> if you took (b) before, you can also Take 20 even if failure has a consequence; it still takes 20 times as long, though
g> if you took (c) before, increase to +4
h> if you took (d) before, increase it to "If you roll a 10 or less"; this only adds 2.5 but greatly reduces the chance of failures on mid-range checks
And there you go. Insta-skillFeat.
Note: this is something the DM does, NOT the player. It's more of a Feat Construction Engine.
STEP 1> Pick one skill, or two related skills.
STEP 2> If you took one skill, pick two of the following. If you picked two skills, choose one of the following to apply to both skills.
a> If it's a cross-class skill, it becomes a class skill. Note that "all Knowledge skills", "all Craft skills", and "all Profession skills" count as one skill for this purpose.
b> If it's often used under duress, you now have the ability to Take 10 even while distracted.
c> A straight +2 bonus
d> "If you roll a 5 or less on this skill check, you may re-roll; the final result stands" which adds, on average, 1.875
e> If it's an exclusive skill, it becomes cross-class.
STEP 3> Pick a name.
On one skill:
A + C is called "Cosmopolitan" or "Educated"
B + D is what I use for "Skill Focus"
and so on.
On two-skill Feats, pick an appropriate name. Listen/Spot C is "Alertness", for example.
Then, there's the Greater Crazy Spatz's Ultra-Adjustable Skill-Modifying Feat! (tm), which lets you pick two more and adds more options:
f> if you took (b) before, you can also Take 20 even if failure has a consequence; it still takes 20 times as long, though
g> if you took (c) before, increase to +4
h> if you took (d) before, increase it to "If you roll a 10 or less"; this only adds 2.5 but greatly reduces the chance of failures on mid-range checks
And there you go. Insta-skillFeat.
I've been tempted to apply my own adjustments to Skill Focus and the like...
Here's the problem, even using the +2/+2 or +3 model for Skill Focus, I don't have a player who has taken Skill Focus or any other skill modifying feat unless it was for the explicit purpose of qualifying for a prestige class.
This problem is further compounded by the fact that +2 or even +3 to a skill is negligible at higher levels and next to useless at low to mid levels when compared to cheap items like the Boots and Cloak of the Elvenkind (and other skill enhancing items).
So... here's my theory: Skill Focus gives +2/+2 to any two skills the player can convince me are appropriate for his character or +3 to any single skill. At 10th character level, that bonus increases to +4/+4 or +6. At 15th character level, the bonus increases again to +6/+6 or +9.
This makes Skill Focus a feat worth taking at any level while still being balanced by the player giving up other options such as Power Attack, metamagic feats, Leadership, or Craft feats. Maybe it's just my campaign, but skills are generally secondary to things like combat, roleplay, and spellcasting.
Here's the problem, even using the +2/+2 or +3 model for Skill Focus, I don't have a player who has taken Skill Focus or any other skill modifying feat unless it was for the explicit purpose of qualifying for a prestige class.
This problem is further compounded by the fact that +2 or even +3 to a skill is negligible at higher levels and next to useless at low to mid levels when compared to cheap items like the Boots and Cloak of the Elvenkind (and other skill enhancing items).
So... here's my theory: Skill Focus gives +2/+2 to any two skills the player can convince me are appropriate for his character or +3 to any single skill. At 10th character level, that bonus increases to +4/+4 or +6. At 15th character level, the bonus increases again to +6/+6 or +9.
This makes Skill Focus a feat worth taking at any level while still being balanced by the player giving up other options such as Power Attack, metamagic feats, Leadership, or Craft feats. Maybe it's just my campaign, but skills are generally secondary to things like combat, roleplay, and spellcasting.
Spatzimaus
First Post
Scaling by increasing bonus isn't always a good idea. Let's say we're talking about some skill that is primarily used for opposed checks (Hide). It doesn't matter how many ranks we each have, the only thing that matters is the difference between our modifiers. A shift of +4 skews the odds dramatically (66/4/30% instead of 47.5/5/47.5%), so something that gives +6 or +9 would be tremendous.
That's why I'd prefer giving things like "You can Take 10 even under duress", since that scales automatically without shifting power.
Not that it's a bad idea, but I'd say you could simplify it a bit. For example, say that it starts +2/+2 or +3, then increases to +3/+3 or +5, +4/+4 or +7, etc. Maybe instead of character level, have it based on how many skill ranks they have in that skill.
That's why I'd prefer giving things like "You can Take 10 even under duress", since that scales automatically without shifting power.
Not that it's a bad idea, but I'd say you could simplify it a bit. For example, say that it starts +2/+2 or +3, then increases to +3/+3 or +5, +4/+4 or +7, etc. Maybe instead of character level, have it based on how many skill ranks they have in that skill.
Possibly something like +1/+1 or +2 for every x ranks in the skill? My gut says that x should be 4 given that the most a 1st level character can have in a skill is 4 ranks. Thus a character that maxes a skill until level 20 would have 23 ranks and be getting a +5/+5 or +10 from the feat. +10 is a good bit of a bonus but that's spending a feat (and unless they're a fighter that's one of the seven they'll ever have) to get that bonus on only one skill.
theoremtank
First Post
I agree that with all the different feats that give bonuses to skills it only makes more information to read and remember and is therefore unnessesarily complex. The designers should just make one feat that gives your character 4 skill points. This way, if you spend your points on two class skills you get a +2 to each of those skills. However if you spend all your points on one cross-class skill you only get one +2.
For the sake of simplicity I think this makes more sense.
For the sake of simplicity I think this makes more sense.
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