Constitution - The Most Important Ability Score of the Game?

[Golem2176]

It appears to me that seeing that ones hit points and life force is driven by Constitution mechanics, that it truly is an important aspect of the character. Also on a side note: If Strength represents how physically capable you are and Wisdom dictates how 'wise' one is, should your Constitution be your 'spirit' score or should it more appropriately be Charisma?

 

[Eolin]

Strength is how much you can extend your might into the world. Constitution is how hard it is for you to be hurt. Both are definetly physical stats. Strength is offensive, dexterity is defensive, and constitution is internal. More or less. But point is, those three are definetly physical stats.

Edit, what's this got to do with charisma?

 

[MarauderX]

I am guessing that you are referring to the more metaphysical part of the game, and where Cha fits in. Cha is a personality indicator more than anything, no matter what race, gender, whatever, the Cha will bubble through to indicate the PC's social compatibility with others. I don't really associate it with 'spirit' per se, as spirit could be unrelated to any ability score or closely associated with all of them. It all is depending on your game, and what you are defining spirit to be.

 

[Stalker0]

I am guessing that you are referring to the more metaphysical part of the game, and where Cha fits in. Cha is a personality indicator more than anything, no matter what race, gender, whatever, the Cha will bubble through to indicate the PC's social compatibility with others. I don't really associate it with 'spirit' per se, as spirit could be unrelated to any ability score or closely associated with all of them. It all is depending on your game, and what you are defining spirit to be.

In some ways charisma is spirit... because UMD is charisma based (your attunement with magic if you will). Also, most spell-like abilities are based on charisma (again more of an attunement with magic).

Finally, divine grace is about your spiritual connection to your deity... it definately ain't about social compatability.

 

[Tonguez]

IMC I have an Influence mechanic which is Cha based (it is the degree to which a character can 'influence' others (including gods) to get what they want)

IMHO Wis is ones ability to attune themselves to whats going on in the environment (Internal and external) and if thats what you mean by Spirit then yeah... (in a homebrew system I was creating before D20 came out I had a Sanity score which was Wis based and pretty much covered Will saves and other 'Spooky' stuff)

However Con is not entirely physical due to its association with Concentration - I'd define it as the ability to endure the effects of external stimuli (physical, mental or otherwise)

So by Spirit do you mean a characters ability to influence the world (cha), to attune themselves to it (Wis), or endure its effects (con)?

 

[Enkhidu]

Concerning the side note:

I've always thought of Int, Wis, and Cha as being the direct couterparts to the physical stats. Int/Dex (mental agility, if you will), Wis/Con (mental and spiritual hardiness - I think there's a reason that they both affect saving throws tied to "resisting" something), and Cha/Str (because both are measures of your capability to affect things outside of yourself).

 

[DreamChaser]

Concerning the side note:

I've always thought of Int, Wis, and Cha as being the direct couterparts to the physical stats. Int/Dex (mental agility, if you will), Wis/Con (mental and spiritual hardiness - I think there's a reason that they both affect saving throws tied to "resisting" something), and Cha/Str (because both are measures of your capability to affect things outside of yourself).

Me too. Me too

I think of Charisma as being your strength of spirit or force of self. A charismatic person may have plenty of faults, social, physical, and mental but they are naturally able to influence people (and animals) because others subconciously (or consciously) recognize their spiritual strength and are drawn to it (kinda like a moth to a flame). Being socially adept is not a trait of charisma but rather a trait of good training (Diplomacy skill).

A person using diplomacy untrained is relying upon their inner flame to do the work for them since they don't necessarily know the right things to say. A highly trained diplomat can be more effective with the right words than the most charismatic person because natural "draw" can only take you so far. Of course by far most effective are those with both.

A sorcerer focuses his magic with his spirit (or his magic is part of his spirit) and so his strength of spirit affects it.

A paladin's divine grace is the gift of his deity but he can only use as much as his spirit allows through.

A cleric turning undead is using his strength of spirit to reveal as much of his deity's presence as he is able.

I like this definition because it makes Charisma something completely objective. No one has the same definition of beauty, some are put off by "glibness". Some are intensely compassionate toward those with stutters and are likely to be influeced by what they have to say. Strength of spirit, however, is independant of these things.


DC

 

[DreamChaser]

aaarrrrrggggg!!!!

 

[DreamChaser]

and again

aaaarrrrggggghhhh

 

[Inari]

I agree mostly with what people are saying here, although I don't really think there's one stat that's generally more important than another.

Of course don't misunderstand me when I say "one generally more important" as there are stats that work better for each class (fx. a paladin's cha score is more important than a fighter's cha score, most of the time at least).

But I feel Cha is a fairly underused stat, and most DMs have to agree with me on that one. If you're not a sorceror, then you likely won't have cha higher than 14. Hence why I use Kharma in my games. I run a Rokugan (oriental) campaign, so fitting Kharma in was pretty easy and well accepted by the players. Basically, you can have your Kharma on 3 levels: good, normal and bad. Good gives you often a slight synergy to small things, like lower a DC by one or two (I most of the time do it without really telling them). You can also "use" your good Kharma to once change a normal dice-check into a natural 20 (incurring critical threats with weapons). With bad Kharma however, I raise the DCs by one or two. I can also use the bad Kharma point to do something really evil ^^ The most used evil thing is change any roll into a natural 1 (incurring fumbles on attack rolls). Cha comes into Kharma as a slight synergy, and I often ask for a Kharma check, if the character has normal Kharma (and using Cha as the Kharma stat).

Long story short: Cha = how fortunate you are.