Converting Epic Level Beings

[Shade]

Exactamundo.

 

[BOZ]

OK, here we go.

Speed and reach will be a little weird, but this is one of many “challenges” we must fix.

Also, I’m of a mind that something a deity can’t easily beat in combat should have immunities similar to a deity, no? you know, such as: transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind-affecting effects, electricity, cold, acid, disease, poison, stunning, sleep, paralysis, death effects, disintegration, and banishment/imprisonment effects. They also have SR 32 + DR and resistance to fire 20 + DR. we may want to consider adding other deific attributes, such as deflection bonus to AC based on Cha mod. Of course, he doesn’t have to have all of this stuff, but he at least needs to be able to stand up to Thor and everything he can do. I figure he should have at least as much HD as Thor too (60). He should have a higher Str (46) and Con (32) than Thor – although with his belt, his Str goes up to 92 (which we may or may not want to replicate for Jormy)

some preliminary stats for Jormungandr:

Jormungandr, the Midgard Serpent
Colossal Dragon
Hit Dice: Xd12+X (LOTS hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: X ft (X squares)
Armor Class: X (-8 size, +X Dex, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +X/+X
Attack: X
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (X+X plus poison)
Space/Reach: X ft/X ft
Special Attacks: constrict, improved grab, death throes, poison
Special Qualities: damage reduction X/X, darkvision 60 ft., instantaneous movement, low-light vision, regeneration X, spell resistance X
Saves: Fort +X Ref +X Will +X
Abilities: Str X, Dex X, Con X, Int X, Wis X, Cha X
Skills: X
Feats: X

Environment: Any land and aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: ---

 

[Shade]

Agreed on all the resistances and immunities business.

We could actually make him Colossal+, like the epic dragons. Speaking of which, here are the stats of the great wyrm epic dragons. He should at least be on par with them.

Force: Str 75 Dex 10 Con 61 Int 62 Wis 63 Cha 62
Prismatic: Str 73 Dex 10 Con 65 Int 64 Wis 65 Cha 64

Both have damage reduction 25/epic.

The bite should do ridiculous amounts of damage. A Colossal+ dragon's bite is 8d6, which is surprisingly close to his 5-50.

 

[BOZ]

We could actually make him Colossal+, like the epic dragons.

Colossal+? How does that work?
The CC only goes up to Colossal (drop down box for size when entering stats) – if we used that size category, I would have to indicate it later in the text.

Speaking of which, here are the stats of the great wyrm epic dragons. He should at least be on par with them.

Force: Str 75 Dex 10 Con 61 Int 62 Wis 63 Cha 62
Prismatic: Str 73 Dex 10 Con 65 Int 64 Wis 65 Cha 64

Both have damage reduction 25/epic.

The bite should do ridiculous amounts of damage. A Colossal+ dragon's bite is 8d6, which is surprisingly close to his 5-50.

I agree with all of that. 8d6 is just fine for damage, and his Str bonus would push it far beyond that.

 

[Shade]

Here ya go, right outta the Epic SRD so it's fair game.

"Epic dragons share all the combat characteristics of standard dragons. Even wyrmling epic dragons are Huge, however, and are capable of making tail sweep and crush attacks. Although there is no size category larger than Colossal, the oldest epic dragons have a greater reach and deal more damage with their attacks than other Colossal dragons, as shown on the Epic Dragon Face and Reach and Epic Dragon Attacks tables below. In addition, the breath weapon of the oldest epic dragons is a larger cone than most Colossal dragons possess. The size modifier for these dragons remains –8."

Epic Dragon Space and Reach
Colossal+ 30 ft./20 ft.
(Note that this is probably still 3E, so it should be 30 ft./30 ft. now)

Epic Dragon Attacks
Size 1 Bite 2 Claws 2 Wings 1 Tail Slap 1 Crush 1 Tail Sweep
Colossal+ 8d6 4d8 4d6 4d8 8d6 4d6

Epic Dragon Breath Weapons
Size Cone* (Length)
Colossal+ 80 ft.
* A cone is as high and wide as its length.

 

[BOZ]

so, essentially, Colossal+ is meaningless to anything except dragons that advance by age category. well, at least we can steal some ideas from it.

 

[Shade]

Yeah, for the most part. We can still give him the greater reach (note my editing after you replied), and greater baselines for damage.

 

[BOZ]

For stats, how about Str 75, Dex 10, Con 65? I don’t think the mental stats need to be as high as those dragons’ though – that would make him far superior mentally than the gods, and I don’t want that. his favorite opponent, Thor, has Int 25, Wis 28, and Cha 28. Odin, however, has Int 49, Wis 30, and Cha 29 – I would expect Jormy to fall between the two gods. For reference, Jormy’s father Loki has Int 29, Wis 27, and Cha 44 – so maybe some of Daddy’s Cha can rub off on Junior.

We need to figure out what to do about the constriction attack. “The serpent can also make one constriction attack per round (near its head or anywhere along its body length), doing 10-100 points.” That’s one of the few items that bother me about only statting up the head, but I guess there are ways to work around even that.

HD – minimum of 60, want to place a number?

 

[Shade]

For stats, how about Str 75, Dex 10, Con 65? I don’t think the mental stats need to be as high as those dragons’ though – that would make him far superior mentally than the gods, and I don’t want that. his favorite opponent, Thor, has Int 25, Wis 28, and Cha 28. Odin, however, has Int 49, Wis 30, and Cha 29 – I would expect Jormy to fall between the two gods. For reference, Jormy’s father Loki has Int 29, Wis 27, and Cha 44 – so maybe some of Daddy’s Cha can rub off on Junior.

Physical stats sound good, and I agree with your ideas for mental stats. Maybe Int 27, Wis 29, Cha 36?

We need to figure out what to do about the constriction attack. “The serpent can also make one constriction attack per round (near its head or anywhere along its body length), doing 10-100 points.” That’s one of the few items that bother me about only statting up the head, but I guess there are ways to work around even that.

Yeah, that troubles me too. Maybe we can extrapolate (at a near-infinite level) from the purple worm, which is 80 feet long, yet only has a space/reach of 20/15 and has a tail attack. Perhaps Jormy's tail just appears at some point within range of his senses to attack. We could give it a reach equal to its longest vision/blindsense/tremorsense/etc. Whaddya think?

HD – minimum of 60, want to place a number?

Using the ol' "divide by 4.5" rule yields 66, which isn't a bad number. The non-deity Bahamut has 53 HD and Tiamat 49 HD, so he eclipses the other badass unique dragons. That also puts him in line with ancient force and prismatic dragons.

 

[Shade]

I went ahead and figured out its ability modifiers for its ridiculously high Str and Con.

Str 75 (+35)
Con 65 (+27)

Assuming we go with 66 HD, it would have 66d12+1,782 (2,211 hp). That sounds crazy high, but it is actually less than the great wyrm force dragon and the wyrm and great wyrm prismatic dragons!

It would have 23 feats. I've got a few in mind.