Converting Epic Level Creatures

[Cleon]

And can someone remind me about the ioun stones? On a quick glance, I don't see anything about them.

If we're talking about the following I'm happy with it:

Ythog-Nthlei is most effective in melee, so uses Dire Charge or greater teleport to engage opponents with his Blacklight Mace and bite as quickly as possible. Opponents outside melee reach may be targeted by his eyebeams. The Dark King relishes the effects his bite's slave venom has on foes, especially enemy spellcasters, whose spells he often counters with quickened greater dispel magic. If hard-pressed, Ythog-Nthlei will gate in a powerful evil outsider to help, such as a balor or pit fiend.

If Ythog-Nthlei is attended by a court of priests and eidolons they will do all they can to assist their master, even if they're little more than distractions to the Dark King's foes.

And can someone remind me about the ioun stones? On a quick glance, I don't see anything about them.

We hadn't agreed on anything yet. My main reluctance is that I don't really fancy having Ythog-Nthlei use them, as it'll just be fiddly to keep track of them all.

I'd be OK with just Double or Triple Standard treasure, or even just Standard.

 

[freyar]

Yes, that's what I mean about the tactics. Let's just go with that.

What I don't understand is where the ioun stones come from at all. I can't find any mention of them in our discussion of Ythog Nthlei until Nookie asked whether he'd use them. I feel like I'm missing something big. Anyway, I'd go with Double Standard if encountered "normally" but could see reducing it to Standard for the "just released" version.

Do we have more flavor text?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, that's what I mean about the tactics. Let's just go with that.

Updating the Ythog-Nthlei Working Draft.

What I don't understand is where the ioun stones come from at all. I can't find any mention of them in our discussion of Ythog Nthlei until Nookie asked whether he'd use them. I feel like I'm missing something big.

It's from the original adventure. Just after Ythog-Nthlei's stats is a paragraph that starts "If the party succeeds in slaying this creature, they will find a small bag made of black, velvety material that contains 10 ioun stones."

He doesn't appear to be using them in the encounter, since they're in a bag rather that spinning around his head.

Anyway, I'd go with Double Standard if encountered "normally" but could see reducing it to Standard for the "just released" version.

Shall we go for "Double Standard" then.

We can leave the arguments about the "just released" version until we finish the full-power one.

Do we have more flavor text?

For the conversion? I don't have anything at the moment.

 

[freyar]

OK, I think the bag of ioun stones wasn't copied into the thread. Whew, I figured either that happened or I was going crazy. Of course, it could be both.

Double Standard treasure it is.

I'm ok with the small amount of background text. Any ideas on height and weight? I'm guessing there may be some numbers in the original adventure. Ahh, he just fits under a 20 ft ceiling. So 20 ft tall? Scaling up a balor's weight gives 21,000 lb, though scaling up a pit fiend only gives 3700. Either balors are fat or pit fiends are skinny, I can't decide which. Anyway, preferences for the Dark Prince?

 

[Cleon]

OK, I think the bag of ioun stones wasn't copied into the thread. Whew, I figured either that happened or I was going crazy. Of course, it could be both.

It might be in this thread somewhere, but Nookie was the one who brought it up for the Treasure discussion.

I'm not entirely sure about double treasure. The Demon Lords in Book of Vile Darkness use quadruple standard, so I'd consider increasing it to quad or triple instead.

I'm ok with the small amount of background text. Any ideas on height and weight? I'm guessing there may be some numbers in the original adventure. Ahh, he just fits under a 20 ft ceiling. So 20 ft tall? Scaling up a balor's weight gives 21,000 lb, though scaling up a pit fiend only gives 3700. Either balors are fat or pit fiends are skinny, I can't decide which. Anyway, preferences for the Dark Prince?

He also fitted into a "monstrous sarcophagous, at least 15 feet in length".

However, we've made him Gargantuan size, which means we'd better make him bigger too. How about 36 feet tall?

As for the weight, I'd lean towards the high end - he's got a lower body shaped like a slug, so he's hardly skinny.

 

[freyar]

I don't have a problem with triple standard treasure, though I think an argument could be made for double as he's been locked up a long time.

36 ft tall; then a scaled up balor is around 122,000 lb or roughly 60 tons. Want to say 36 ft and 60 tons? Of course, with the sizes we've noted in the adventure, perhaps we should give him a "squeezing" special ability.

 

[Cleon]

I don't have a problem with triple standard treasure, though I think an argument could be made for double as he's been locked up a long time.

36 ft tall; then a scaled up balor is around 122,000 lb or roughly 60 tons. Want to say 36 ft and 60 tons?

Triple treasure, 36 feet tall and 60 tons is OK by me.

Of course, with the sizes we've noted in the adventure, perhaps we should give him a "squeezing" special ability.

Well that'd explain how he can fit into a 15 foot long coffin!

Something like:

Squeeze (Ex): Ythog-Nthlei's gelatinous body allows him to freely move and fight through any opening large enough to pass a Large creature. He can squeeze through openings a Medium creature can fit through with a DC 30 Escape Artist check.

 

[freyar]

I'm happy with that if you are.

Any thoughts on CR? His HD would make me guess around CR 20 or 21, but his special abilities (including Hearty) probably are worth a few extra CR.

 

[Cleon]

I'm happy with that if you are.

That's OK by me, so I'll add it to the Ythog-Nthlei Working Draft.

I'm happy with that if you are.

Any thoughts on CR? His HD would make me guess around CR 20 or 21, but his special abilities (including Hearty) probably are worth a few extra CR.

I'd be fine making him CR 22 like Obox-Ob, since his stats are in the same area as the Demon Prince of Vermin.

 

[freyar]

Yeah, CR 22 or 23 is probably about right.

Thoughts on description? I think that's all we need.