Converting Forgotten Realms monsters

[freyar]

Yes, that's fine. Did we decide to give this to the lesser ones also?

Shall we start putting the greater template together?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, that's fine. Did we decide to give this to the lesser ones also?

Yes we did, or at least that's how I remember it.

Shall we start putting the greater template together?

Suits me.

Since Shade did the Working Draft of the Lesser version in Homebrews, I guess we should do the same for the Abysskin.

Shade wanted to do the special abilities first, so far we've got something like this:

Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a greater shadowrath's touch attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess) gain one negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. A vampire can use its energy drain ability once per round.

Any creature killed by a greater shadowrath's energy drain has its soul bound to the afterlife and cannot be raised from the dead. A miracle or wish spell can break this bond, allowing a raise dead or similar spell to return the deceased to life.

 

[Shade]

Yes we did, or at least that's how I remember it.

Yep!

Since Shade did the Working Draft of the Lesser version in Homebrews, I guess we should do the same for the Abysskin.

Shade wanted to do the special abilities first, so far we've got something like this:

Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a greater shadowrath's touch attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess) gain one negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. A vampire can use its energy drain ability once per round.

Any creature killed by a greater shadowrath's energy drain has its soul bound to the afterlife and cannot be raised from the dead. A miracle or wish spell can break this bond, allowing a raise dead or similar spell to return the deceased to life.

I'll get one going once we've compiled a few more basics. I'm not sure I like requiring a wish or miracle before allowing a raise dead. Most creatures with this sort of ability simply allow the wish or miracle to restore life, and usually a true ress is allowed as well. Thoughts?

 

[freyar]

There are a couple of vampires still hiding out in the energy drain. As for the wish or miracle, I think I'd let them resurrect the character (and true resurrection, too). That seems costly enough for what's ultimately not such a powerful monster.

 

[Cleon]

I'll get one going once we've compiled a few more basics. I'm not sure I like requiring a wish or miracle before allowing a raise dead. Most creatures with this sort of ability simply allow the wish or miracle to restore life, and usually a true ress is allowed as well. Thoughts?

Well, firstly the SRD description of what a wish can do suggests a wish can perform one function, and puts limits as to what that function is. I imagined the situation was similar to returning a disintegrated creature to life, which the wish spell description says requires two wishes (one to recreate a body, one to duplicate a resurrection spell). Thus, in the case of a Greater Shadowrath it'd require one wish (or equivalent) to break the "irreversible death curse" and another to raise the dead.

Secondly, I imagined binding a creature to stay dead in this fashion as being roughly equivalent to a trap the soul or imprisonment spell, and an imprisonment can't be broken by a wish or miracle spell.

 

[Shade]

Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature--its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.

Feed (Su): When a barghest slays a humanoid opponent, it can feed on the corpse, devouring both flesh and life force, as a full-round action. Feeding destroys the victim’s body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse. There is a 50% chance that a wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore a devoured victim to life. Check once for each destroyed creature. If the check fails, the creature cannot be brought back to life by mortal magic.

Feed (Su): When a beast of Xvim slays a humanoid opponent, it can feed on the corpse, devouring both flesh and life force, as a full-round action. For every 8 HD or levels the beast consumes, it gains one Hit Die. The beast can delay this feeding for up to one day per Hit Die it has; after that time, the victim's life force is beyond its reach. Feeding destroys the victim's body and prevents any form of raising or ressurection that requires part of the corpse. There is a 50% chance that a wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore a devoured victim to life. Check once for each destroyed creature. If the check fails, the creature cannot be brought back to life by mortal magic.

Soul Consumption (Su): Once a soulmarauder has successfully "tasted" a victim's soul (by draining one or more of the victim's Constitution points), the creature can remove and eat the victim's soul. On each following successful melee attack that deals damage normally, the victum must make a successful Fortitude save (DC 25). Failure means one of the soulmarauder's insubstantial tails curls into his or her body, becomes taut, then makes a sickening twist and emerges with the victim's soul (which appears as a multicolored pinpoint of light). The victim's body falls to the ground like a puppet whose strings have been cut--the body appears loose, the skin too large for its bones, and is obviously missing a certain something. The soul is plunged into the soulmarauder's mouthlike orifice, and consumed utterly over the course of 1 hour. If the soulmarauder is slain before 1 hour, the soul returns to the body, reanimating the victim; however, the victim gains 1d4 negative levels from the partially successful digestion of its essence. The save DC is Charisma-based.

No form of raising or ressurection can restore a victim whose soul is completely digested to life. A wish, miracle, or true ressurection has only a 25% chance to restore a victim to life.

Ahem.

 

[Cleon]

Ahem.

Oh, I knew there were a few Special Attacks that contradicted the wish spell description, but I thought you didn't like exception-based design.

Come to think of it, I should have said you needed two wishes to revive a totally destroyed/annihilated body, not a disintegrated one, since the resurrection spell specifies the dusty residue of a disintegrate spell is enough to resurrect someone.

Anyhow, are you proposing a percentage chance of success now?

I'm also wondering whether the destruction of an abysskin should break this "deathtrapping" curse and allow normal raising. I'm leaning towards "no" to that question, since I think the shadowraths' Death God patron is the active party to the ability.

 

[Shade]

Anyhow, are you proposing a percentage chance of success now?

Sure. I'd like to use the Feed mechanics where applicable.

I'm also wondering whether the destruction of an abysskin should break this "deathtrapping" curse and allow normal raising. I'm leaning towards "no" to that question, since I think the shadowraths' Death God patron is the active party to the ability.

<leans into Cleon, continuing to nudge him along the correct course>

 

[Cleon]

Sure. I'd like to use the Feed mechanics where applicable.

<leans into Cleon, continuing to nudge him along the correct course>

But what if I'm already correct, and you're trying to nudge me off course?

Come to think of it, does the AD&D Barghest's devouring prevent raising? I don't remember them doing that. Hold on while I check...

Hmm, nothing in either the Planescape Campaign Setting or the 1st edition Monster Manual II about how the Barghest devouring a body affects bringing it back to life, meaning a plain resurrection should be enough (assuming there's a few shreds of flesh or bone left to cast the spell on).

So it's actually harder to raise a Barghest victim in 3rd edition!

Contrariwise, the AD&D Boggart, which also devours its victims body and life force, does prevent resurrection, but its official 3.5E conversion from The Silent Manse has no such ability. (Ironically, Enworld has a 3.0 conversion of that Boggart which has the SRD Barghest's feed ability.

Weird, eh?

Anyhow, getting back on topic, I suppose I could grudgingly yield on the Feed (up to a point).

I still like the idea of their being a way to break the "stay dead curse" without having to raise the deceased at the same time. Maybe a limited wish, or a break enchantment against a high CL?

 

[Shade]

I still like the idea of their being a way to break the "stay dead curse" without having to raise the deceased at the same time. Maybe a limited wish, or a break enchantment against a high CL?

To what advantage? To allow a combo of lower-level spells to achieve the same result as a high-level spell?

If that's the case, I'd like to reserve judgement until we determine the relative CR of these fellas. If they're weaker than the barghest, I could support that idea. Otherwise, I think the barghest's rules should stand.