Converting monsters from Second Edition Monstrous Compendiums

[Cleon]

That's the way I understood it, hence the Escape Artist check in the spell.

I like the EA check alone, since dragons usually have ridiculous saves.

Yes, but Reflex tends to be their weakest save, since most dragons have Dex 10.

 

[Shade]

Yes, but Reflex tends to be their weakest save, since most dragons have Dex 10.

The weakest among "awesome" is still great.

 

[Cleon]

The weakest among "awesome" is still great.

Well, it still sits poorly with me.

Does Freyar still think a Ref save is OK?

 

[freyar]

It doesn't have to be identical to the spell, which is why I suggested the Str check. But since you don't like that...

I guess I prefer the Ref save only to avoid, but I don't mind too much either way. The skill check could also be insanely high; it's just that dragons don't usually invest much in Escape Artist.

 

[Cleon]

It doesn't have to be identical to the spell, which is why I suggested the Str check. But since you don't like that...

I guess I prefer the Ref save only to avoid, but I don't mind too much either way. The skill check could also be insanely high; it's just that dragons don't usually invest much in Escape Artist.

Yes, I'd be OK with that. Give the DC of the Escape Artist / Reflex check a hefty circumstance bonus.

For example, masterwork manacles require a DC 35 Escape Artist check. If we set the bonus so a typical 10th level Undead Dragon Slayer's Wingbinding has that DC and even a CR-appropriate dragon (like, say, a Juvenile Red Dragon with a +10 Ref save) would have difficulty making that Ref save.

So, something like 10 plus 1/2 level plus [primary ability] plus a +10 bonus might give the numbers we need. We could have an "Improved Wingbinding" with improved range and DC if that seems inadequate for the big Wyrms.

 

[Shade]

So, something like 10 plus 1/2 level plus [primary ability] plus a +10 bonus might give the numbers we need. We could have an "Improved Wingbinding" with improved range and DC if that seems inadequate for the big Wyrms.

I really don't care for the arbitrary +10.

Rather than the additional +10 bonus, how about just level (instead of 1/2 level)? I'd be willing to even go with character level (rather than class level) in this case.

 

[Cleon]

I really don't care for the arbitrary +10.

Rather than the additional +10 bonus, how about just level (instead of 1/2 level)? I'd be willing to even go with character level (rather than class level) in this case.

That'd be OK by me, except the Undead Dragon Slayer doesn't actually necessarily have levels in a Dragon Slayer class, since it's a template. So, we're talking character level or Hit Dice here.

 

[freyar]

Total character level (HD) works for me, so 10+HD+Cha then?

 

[Shade]

Total character level (HD) works for me, so 10+HD+Cha then?

Yes.

 

[Cleon]

Yes.

Sounds promising. Let's plug that into the SA and see what it looks like.